cannot believe the difference

milkie62 · Sep 9, 2009

I have a Kubota L305 4wd with a 79 ci engine.It weighs around 2200-2400 lbs before loaded tires.It has a fel.I just rented a Challenger 265 compact with fel.It has a 91 ci engine and weighs about 2700 lbs before loaded tires.I could not believe the difference in power.The Challenger ate the Kubota for lunch.The kubota only has 1100 hrs and is around a 1979-1980.The challenger is a 2004 model with a little over 300 hrs.The kubota is a dog compared to it and could never carry in the bucket what the Challenger can.is there that much change in technology over the years ???

Ductape · Sep 9, 2009

Hmmmm.............. is there much difference between a 79 Corvette and today's Corvette? 1979's 3/4 ton pickup and today's?

Definitely alot of improvement in the past thirty years.

Ken45101 · Sep 9, 2009

It would be interesting to compare the HP of the two tractors. I checked ritchiespecs.com but they don't show a 305.

Diesel technology has come a long way in the past 30 years, and I would think especially in small diesel engines. It wouldn't surprise me if that newer tractor had twice the hp between the larger displacement and the newer design.

Ken

MarkV · Sep 9, 2009

Horsepower is one thing but when you talk loaders it is all about hydraulic power. Newer tractors have much stronger hydraulics than those of the past.

MarkV

Builder · Sep 9, 2009

I used to have a '79 Kubota 285DT. It was ~28HP. I think the 305 was ~30HP.

The Challenger 265 is 33HP. That's only ~10% more, so the difference in engine power is not that great. The total hdydraulic pump flow GPM is 12.7-13.7 on the Challenger 265. Don't know Kubota 305 GPM.

Diamondpilot · Sep 9, 2009

You are right builder, the 305 is 30 HP. The hydro flow is about 6 gpm. Now as you all know the flow only controls the speed. The pressure and design of the FEL has more to do with what it will lift.

Not that it matters much but I show the 265 as weighing about 3,200# so that helps.

Like the others said, there is a big difference in stuff with age. It gets better all the time. The example of a 3/4 ton truck is perfect. Today's 1/2 tons are more truck then the 3/4 tons of 15 years ago.

Chris

milkie62 · Sep 9, 2009

My 305 kubota has no pickup at all when it starts lugging down.And forget about using 4th gear high range unless you are completely level.I was always worried about getting a new tractor--I have been kicking tires for about 5 yrs now.I have a 1958 MF 65 that is starting to get tired but still keeps kicking along with the kubota 305 with the semi-junky kelly loader.Well anyway all my big implements are sized for the 176 ci gas engine that the Massey has,the kubota could never pull the plows or the disks.I have been trying to compare newer diesels to my 176 ci gas for power.I think if I go with the 1552 massey with 4wd that i should have no problem after seeing how much grunt that 265 challenger had with a small engine.The 1552 has double the displacement.

Builder · Sep 10, 2009

milkie62 said:
My 305 kubota has no pickup at all when it starts lugging down.And forget about using 4th gear high range unless you are completely level.I was always worried about getting a new tractor--I have been kicking tires for about 5 yrs now.I have a 1958 MF 65 that is starting to get tired but still keeps kicking along with the kubota 305 with the semi-junky kelly loader.Well anyway all my big implements are sized for the 176 ci gas engine that the Massey has,the kubota could never pull the plows or the disks.I have been trying to compare newer diesels to my 176 ci gas for power.I think if I go with the 1552 massey with 4wd that i should have no problem after seeing how much grunt that 265 challenger had with a small engine.The 1552 has double the displacement.

I have a '05 AGCO Challenger MT285B the equivalent of a Massey 1547. It's a 47.5HP 180 cu in. engine tractor with 3 range hydrostatic. Your 1552 is even more powerful. These tractors are made by Iseki in japan. They are pretty nice. The AC & heat in the cab is great. Plenty of power. Engine starts in very cold weather with out complaining. Powerful hydraulics.

MessickFarmEqu · Sep 10, 2009

Yea, what your finding there is the difference in hydraulic power. Todays little subcompacts have as much hydraulic flow as that L305 does... things have changed more than a little over the last 30 years.

Diamondpilot · Sep 10, 2009

Not a Bota or Massey but I have a gas 172cu in Ford 861 PowerMaster that is something like 48HP. If you are not familiar with the 800 series Fords they look like a 8N but about 50% bigger. Anyway I bought a 28HP 94 cu in Jinma diesel 4x4 and it will pull the guts out of the 861. The only place the 861 can beat the Jinma is in applications that are pure PTO like running a chipper. My Jinma will pull a 2 bottom plow and a 11' disc like its nothing and the 861 will struggle and forget the plow in virgin soil. The guy down the street has a older Ford 961 which is even bigger and he can not believe how these little compacts will work!

Chris

MtnViewRanch · Sep 10, 2009

Diamondpilot said:
Not a Bota or Massey but I have a gas 172cu in Ford 861 PowerMaster that is something like 48HP. If you are not familiar with the 800 series Fords they look like a 8N but about 50% bigger. Anyway I bought a 28HP 94 cu in Jinma diesel 4x4 and it will pull the guts out of the 861. The only place the 861 can beat the Jinma is in applications that are pure PTO like running a chipper. My Jinma will pull a 2 bottom plow and a 11' disc like its nothing and the 861 will struggle and forget the plow in virgin soil. The guy down the street has a older Ford 961 which is even bigger and he can not believe how these little compacts will work!

Chris

Chris, any chance that you have any pictures of your Jinma pulling that 11' disk. A lot of guys have said that they pull these wide disks with their smaller tractors. I would just like to see the type of disk and how deep that they till, that the smaller tractors are able to pull them.

Thanks

CinderSchnauzer · Sep 10, 2009

Ken45101 said:
It would be interesting to compare the HP of the two tractors. I checked ritchiespecs.com but they don't show a 305.

Diesel technology has come a long way in the past 30 years, and I would think especially in small diesel engines. It wouldn't surprise me if that newer tractor had twice the hp between the larger displacement and the newer design.

Ken

According to Tractor Data

Challenger MT265B Power:

Engine:33.0 hp [24.6 kW]
PTO (claimed):26.0 hp [19.4 kW] (gear)
24.5 hp [18.3 kW] (hydro)
Kubota L305 Power:

Engine:30 hp [22.4 kW]
PTO (claimed):26 hp [19.4 kW]

milkie62 · Sep 10, 2009

no subcompact is going to pull my disks (8.5') ford better than my old massey unless they have the shear weight and also they will need 4wd as compared to 2wd of my massey

firemen122 · Sep 10, 2009

I to would like to see pictures of a 28 horse compact pulling an 11 foot disc. I had a 14 ft hung behind a 110 horse earlier this year and if I sunk it to the shafts it was all it wanted with any aggression at all set on the gangs. My 65 horse 4x4 does not care for an 11 foot disc when set to proper working angle and depth.

Builder · Sep 10, 2009

Sounds like we got a good ol fashioned smack down ready to happen.

In one corner we have a 28HP jimna pulling a 11' disc.

In the other corner we have a 28HP Jimna not pulling an 11' disc.

lol

Sweden-Art · Sep 10, 2009

Builder said:
Sounds like we got a good ol fashioned smack down ready to happen.

In one corner we have a 28HP jimna pulling a 11' disc.

In the other corner we have a 28HP Jimna not pulling an 11' disc.

lol

Or maybe in one corner we have 28HP Jinma pulling a 11' disc.

In the other corner a twice as much more expensive Kubota not pulling an 11' disc.

Maybe thats why the urge of pictures

Diamondpilot · Sep 10, 2009

Sweden-Art said:
Or maybe in one corner we have 28HP Jinma pulling a 11' disc.

In the other corner a twice a much more expensive Kubota not pulling an 11' disc.

Maybe thats why the urge of pictures

I do not have a picture of it pulling that disc but I have a link to a youtube of a fellow member of another site using his with a 12' disc and a 2 bottom plow. This is not my particular tractor, I have no video of mine plowing, but like I said it will out work my 861 and my buddies 961 any day of the week.

By the way the Jinma with me, FEL, and the wheel weights puts it at 5,200#. Mine dynoed at 31 HP on the PTO. I have been told the Chinesee rate them at a 12 hour rating for average HP while others rate at peak.

YouTube - Jinma 284 Doing Fall Plowing

He is pulling the heck out of this 2 bottom plow with no FEL for weight. My 861 would not come close to that speed.

YouTube - Jinma 284 and 12 Foot Disk Harrow

I agree on his disc he does not have any weight in the trays or a very aggressive angle but the 11' I pulled was just like it and we had it stacked with cinder blocks smoothing out a go cart track.

Chris

firemen122 · Sep 11, 2009

I watched the video. He might as well have transport wheels on it. The gangs are straight no weight and on what appears to be fairly hard ground. I could hang a 40 footer behind my tractor like that!!!! Does not mean it will effectively work the implement. I am sure at 5000lbs and 4 wheel drive your new one will work rings around the old ford. I have a 901 powermaster that I still utilize, it has been in the family since the early 70's. Funny thing that old tractor always seems to keep running great even though it is a 1957 model. It will pull until it spins itself to the axle if you let it. It does not run out of power just traction. I am certain if I were to hang a front drive axle under her she would be a new beast. Show me a video of a 30 horse tractor pulling a 12 foot disc set aggressive with 20-22 inch blades with enough weight to make it sink to the shafts. Then I will be a converted believer in the raw power of a 30 horse cut!!! I can put a 15 ft batwing behind your tractor and clip 12 inch thin weeds all day to, does not mean it will work that batwing to its potential or even close. That is if I can feather the pto and get it turning without stalling the engine. Just my 2 cents

MtnViewRanch · Sep 11, 2009

firemen122 said:
I watched the video. He might as well have transport wheels on it. The gangs are straight no weight and on what appears to be fairly hard ground. I could hang a 40 footer behind my tractor like that!!!! Does not mean it will effectively work the implement. I am sure at 5000lbs and 4 wheel drive your new one will work rings around the old ford. I have a 901 powermaster that I still utilize, it has been in the family since the early 70's. Funny thing that old tractor always seems to keep running great even though it is a 1957 model. It will pull until it spins itself to the axle if you let it. It does not run out of power just traction. I am certain if I were to hang a front drive axle under her she would be a new beast. Show me a video of a 30 horse tractor pulling a 12 foot disc set aggressive with 20-22 inch blades with enough weight to make it sink to the shafts. Then I will be a converted believer in the raw power of a 30 horse cut!!! I can put a 15 ft batwing behind your tractor and clip 12 inch thin weeds all day to, does not mean it will work that batwing to its potential or even close. That is if I can feather the pto and get it turning without stalling the engine. Just my 2 cents

Come on now, are you trying to tell me that a 30hp tractor wouldn't pull these disks, in this soil, in this configuration. I guess that the next time that I get them out I will try them out behind my 3215HST. It has all four tires loaded, it will do it, right?

No need for gear, it's hydro for me.

Actually my 8' disk has the 20, 22" blades, the 12 footer has 32, 22" blades. And I would love to see a smaller tractor pull either one.

If conditions are right, that 12' disk will make the Cat D6 tracks slip in the ground.

Diamondpilot · Sep 12, 2009

You guys are right, there is no way my tractor would pull a disc of that size trough that soil. Our soil is hard clay in chunks. Your soil is soft sandy soil that you would sink in just walking through. Next time I do the neighborhood go cart track I will post a video of first the 961 pulling it then my Jinma. Like I said its a 11' and I have a 6' 3 point type and even with the trays full of cinder blocks we can not get more than 1/4 blade penetration due to the soil conditions.

No farmer around her uses disc much. They just use 12-16' chisel plows behind large 150 HP or bigger tractors to get the soil conditioned.

Chris