well finally got started on my pole barn. Have a little problem, the concrete is little rough in places and has a few high spots. in the process of pouring it a rain storm developed cause all kinds of havick. Was woundering if a one inch cap could be laid over the floor, or would it crack out. Have heard there may be a bounding agent that could be applied between the layers. any one tried this? The floor is about 5 inches thick, just trying to pretty it up. thanks for any advice
capping concrete
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deereman75
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How long ago did you pour the slab? If it was within a few months to a year, I think it would be perfectly fine without any bonding agent. I think that stuff is only needed if it is really old concrete. Now I dont know all that much about this, but this is what I recall hearing.
Tractor Seabee
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There are a lot of good products out there for such repairs. Some are trowel in place and some are self leveling. The self leveling are very thin and seek the natural level of water. You need a form around the edges to keep from running off. If you get something from the big box store you will probably be disappointed. All products will not cover cracks as they will reflect through in time. There are trowel in place materials that are high tech and cost quite more but will bridge cracks if you cover the cracks with a fiberglass mesh first. For everything you need a clean roughened surface. Follow the manufacturer's instructions to the letter including any priming requirements. Thin layers of concrete mix (up to 1" or so) will break up over time unless it is well bonded to the substrate with a epoxy or latex bonding agent. With latex I use some in the mix water also.
Go to a builders speciality supply company not a big box store, lumber yard, or hardware store as they have not had the manufacturer's training. and discuss with them. Take pictures with you. They are very helpful and want you to be successful.
Ron
Go to a builders speciality supply company not a big box store, lumber yard, or hardware store as they have not had the manufacturer's training. and discuss with them. Take pictures with you. They are very helpful and want you to be successful.
Ron
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Gary Fowler
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For proper bonding, the existing concrete has to be clean and the cement laitance removed. This can be done with bushing hammer, sand blaster or even a power washer if it is in the 3000PSI range. Fresher the concrete the softer it is and easier to get ready. Bonding agent isnt cheap but you need to use one for cement products. If you go with an epoxy, then you wont need a bonding agent but will still need to clean it and rough up the surface for proper bonding. Clean and dry for epoxy or clean and damp for cement product. I am not sure what the strength of the self leveling or trowelable mixtures is but your supplier should have the info on that. It needs to have at least 3000 PSI crush strength when cured to be as strong as your base concrete. Masterbuilder brand makes some good products for grouting and floor leveling.
dex3361
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I have used the bonding agent called Weldbond. I have great success with this product. I have poured a few thin pours over a small area and it did good. Rolled a diluted mixture out on the existing pour and then mixed a bit in the concrete that was to be poured as well. Very reasonably priced and it has the consistency of Elmer's glue and cleans up with soap and water.
CurlyDave
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I looked into this kind of thing for leveling an uneven slab in my house.
The big problem I found is that the self-leveling compounds are very expensive compared to standard concrete.
If you are building a new barn and want it level, it may well be less expensive to put down 3" of new concrete on top of the old concrete. 1" will surely fail, and even 2" is iffy, but a 3" topping is going to survive.
There is a tool called a scarifier, which I have rented for both concrete roughening to promote bonding and to help remove high spots. It is about the same size as a small lawn mower, but much heavier.
The big problem I found is that the self-leveling compounds are very expensive compared to standard concrete.
If you are building a new barn and want it level, it may well be less expensive to put down 3" of new concrete on top of the old concrete. 1" will surely fail, and even 2" is iffy, but a 3" topping is going to survive.
There is a tool called a scarifier, which I have rented for both concrete roughening to promote bonding and to help remove high spots. It is about the same size as a small lawn mower, but much heavier.
Degolyerent
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I would not go any less than 2" and clean well use a bonding agent and 3000psi pea rock concrete with micro fiber.
Self leveling mixes work very well also they have a high psi strength, but they are expensive and you can only get them at speciality supply houses
Good luck with your slab!!!!!
Self leveling mixes work very well also they have a high psi strength, but they are expensive and you can only get them at speciality supply houses
Good luck with your slab!!!!!
Egon
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What kind of havoc did the rain create? Is the present concrete up to standards as to strenth?
TO_Bud
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I think I would try a concrete grinding contractor for leveling or maybe you can rent the machine yourself in your area. Here is a link. Repairing Uneven Raised High Concrete Surfaces Using Concrete Grinding Scarifying Scabbling MIlling
Bud
Bud
Agreed
How big is the area though buying and mixing may be a real problem
At work we have grouted in clarifiers for final leveling and the batch plant has supplied a grout mixture w/ small pea gravel and fiberglass that seems to last but we are not running equipment over it.
I would definatly put some dowels in the floor and then tie in some hog panels to keep the top from cracking into pieces. And like many have said already at the very least 2" thick.
Egon
Epic Contributor
Remember that the minimum thickness you pick will be over the high points.
EddieWalker
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How big is the slab?
How big are the problem areas?
Before pouring on top of the existing slab, I would rent a grinder and smooth out the simple areas. If you like the results, see how it works on the tougher spots.
I would rent a jack hammer and take down the high spots. Either take it all out, or go down halfway and fill with new concrete.
Eddie
CurlyDave
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Myself, I would need to rent an operator to run the jackhammer.
thanks for all the replies, it is a new pour less than a week old 30x48. contractor did some patching of some of the chips looks horrible and afraid they wont hold. the rain started about 3/4 the way through the pour, started messing up what had been finished rained hard all day guess they tried to save it did fairly well but just not what i wanted to start out with in a new building. think repairing all the problems would cost more than starting over. Rain had been perdicted, I was concerned about it my neighbor said they are professionals they do this all the time just let it happen. That logic worked great for me. the contractor agreed to knock off a thousand on the price but think Ill try for a redo. Ive tried to let the floor grow on me but just makes me ill to agree to pay for crappy work when i know the guy can turn out a super floor
AGGIE00
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Are ther any beams in the slab, or is it just a slab on grade? If you don't have any beams I would start over considering materials for the slab should be $3000 or less. Have the contractor donate removing the old slab and labor for the new. We were always responsible for the finished product and making any imperfections right. I think this is the only way you will be happy in the long run. Scabbing on concrete never lasts and epoxy is expensive.
Degolyerent
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Do you have pictures? It would make for better recommendations on our part,you could cap with 3"" and virtually have no worries, it would reduce the chances of cracking and shaling off I would make sure and saw cut joints in it approx. 10' one way and 12' the other(30x48 ) it would take 13.33cy, being the contractor offered $1000 off it would cover some cost and maybe you could get him to pour the cap at a bargain rate,you could use 3000psi regular concrete,of course if you have not payed him yet or taken the money back offer you could let him pay total cost of re-do.depending on what kind of deal you struck with him originally as to what your options are
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EddieWalker
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Sounds like a disaster, and a total redo. It's sad, but sometimes a contractor gets caught up in the momment and gets in over his head. It happens to all of us, and while it's happening, it's hard to see. But the next day, it's both embarrasing and obvious.
Take a ton of pictures of it, and let the contractor know that you paid for a brand new, perfect slab, and that's what you want. Don't pay him for anything except for the materials. The supplier will sue you and put a lean on your place if you don't pay for the concrete. I wouldn't trust the contractor to pay for the concrete. Something like this can get nasty. I would go to the concrete yard and pay for it in person and get a receipt .
Plan and expect the worse, hope that it doesn't happen.
Here is a thread that you might want to read. They had a big mess with their slab and after a lot of effort, managed to get it all worked out.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/91151-project-update-if-only-long.html
Eddie
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Grinding contractors can make it look like glass. Don't know what the cost is, but it might be cheaper for your mason to have that done.
Hooked_on_HP
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I work for a redi mix company. We are the ones that deliver the concrete. We deal with situations like this all the time. If it were my building I would want a perfect floor. If the person you hired to do it is a contractor and he ordered the concrete make him replace it. He should be insured. Make sure to get a material waiver from him. If you hired him to finish the concrete and you ordered the concrete it opens a whole different can of worms. The person who orders the concrete is the one responsible for the concrete bill. If there was a chance of rain the contractor should have had plastic on hand in case it did rain. If he was just hired to finish the concrete you should have had plastic ready.
Bill
Bill
CurlyDave
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At this point, the least costly way out is going to be adding another 3" of concrete to the existing slab.
Tearing out the existing slab and re-pouring it will have the cost of concrete demolition and removal in addition to needing more concrete, and the drain rock and sand under the slab will have to be reworked.
My own opinion is that the contractor should bear the entire cost of the re-work, not just $1000. Now sometimes you have to be realistic. If the contractor is a little guy, he may not have the resources to do that. But, he should get a pretty good discount on the redi mix, so the $1000 he has already offered should cover that, and his own labor for the rework should be at no cost. The labor for his help is the only question and he should cover at least half of that.
Tearing out the existing slab and re-pouring it will have the cost of concrete demolition and removal in addition to needing more concrete, and the drain rock and sand under the slab will have to be reworked.
My own opinion is that the contractor should bear the entire cost of the re-work, not just $1000. Now sometimes you have to be realistic. If the contractor is a little guy, he may not have the resources to do that. But, he should get a pretty good discount on the redi mix, so the $1000 he has already offered should cover that, and his own labor for the rework should be at no cost. The labor for his help is the only question and he should cover at least half of that.
