Caroni Flail Belt Failure

[sunspot]

I can see from Foozle's picture that his spring has more tension than mine did at 5 hours.
I now have mine a bit tighter than Foozle's.
As I said, I'm in a wait and see mode.

Cyberroc, what is a Kevlar belt? I only know of Kevlar used in body armor. Is it also heat resistant?

I would like to buy some Gate branded belts. The NAPA belts I bought were made in Mexico and the AGRI belts were made in India. I have no idea where the Caroni belts were made. There was not enough left of them to read anything that was stamped on them.

 

[Cyberroc]

Cyberroc, what is a Kevlar belt? I only know of Kevlar used in body armor. Is it also heat resistant?

Kevlar belts, yes they are made of, or at least reinforced with Kevlar. They are stronger and more heat resistant, not heat proof but more resistant.

It may be a band-aid in this case though, however if all else fails I would try it.

 

[wstr75]

Here is another Gates Rubber article that provides much information on the subject. The first trouble-shooting area is belt tension. Another interesting tidbit is belt damage incurred by poor installation technique. At any rate, here is some more information for inquiring minds that want to know.

Maintenanceworld: Eliminate Belt problems

Bill in NC

 

[Reg]

Here's something a little "curious".
Several days ago I had marked the belts on mine and turned the mower over by hand looking for "tight spots" - misnomer, since the tension is pretty much the same at all times, maybe I mean "slack spots".
Anyway, having described my findings to Agri-Supply they are sending me a set of belts, which should arrive today.
What I have found while waiting for these belts is that the original ones that are still on the mower appear to take on some sort of a "set", i.e. the tensioner creeps in on the slack run and APPEARS TO create a stretched spot. They're probably just setting into the curvature of the tensioner roller and when I turn the mower over by hand that "set" is what I am fighting.

Whether or not this means that there is already too much tension I don't yet know. I also don't (yet) have my son's fish scale to measure the tension with.
I think I will probably start the mower with the cover off and just let the tractor run it at idle engine speed to see if the "set", that looks like tight/slack spots when turned by hand, comes out when the belts flex for a minute or two and (perhaps) warm up a bit. I'm not sure that they will warm up much with little/no load, but I might get SOME info from this.

 

[have_blue]

What are your thoughts on the belt situaiton? Is it most likely a belt quality issue?

Having used many belts on mowers and equipment, I have noticed there's a huge difference in belt quality between the premium and cheap belts. In light to moderate conditions, I find the cheap-O's last about 1/4-1/2rd as long as the premium belts.

It's not hard to imagine a very demanding application where the cheap-O's would fail very early. High heat causes slippage, which causes more heat and slippage, which causes the cord to weaken and start breaking, etc.

 

[Reg]

Here is another Gates Rubber article that provides much information on the subject. The first trouble-shooting area is belt tension. Another interesting tidbit is belt damage incurred by poor installation technique. At any rate, here is some more information for inquiring minds that want to know.

Maintenanceworld: Eliminate Belt problems

Bill in NC

Thanks for the link.

Maybe I found this because I LOOKED FOR IT in that article;

"The ideal tension for a V-belt drive is the lowest tension at which the belt will not slip at the highest load condition."

In any case it at least confirms my belief that ANY MORE than that lowest needed tension is bad.

I will probably try taking the tension up to JUST where the tight run of the belts straightens out - or at least gets to the same degree of curvature on all three belts. IOW, I want to find out how LITTLE tension I can use without creating slip & squeal.

 

[IslandTractor]

I was not able to do any significant deep grass mowing this weekend but did mow some 6-8 inch dry grass for about half an hour. Afterwards the belt cover was warm but I could keep my hand on it for about 5 seconds before it became uncomfortable. I used an infrared thermometer and measured 124F at the bottom pully. I did not take the cover off and the cover over the top pully (where I hand my hand test) was 114F by infrared thermometer.

Note that by the touch test this was not as hot as the mower gets after prolonged high grass/bush hogging but I thought I'd post the results. Belt tension is unchanged from last week when I took up about 2/3 of the adjustment range.

 

[texbaylea]

I was mowing with my BEST/Hanmey flail yesterday in the 90 degree heat for two hours yesterday. FWIW I was able to place my hand on the belt cover comfortably, indefinitely. The machine does not have an automatic belt tensioner or idler pulley.

There is a NASA spec that says that a "touch" temperature of 105* will allow continuous contact. Some people will be able to go higher.

Just FYI

Vernon

 

[IslandTractor]

There is a NASA spec that says that a "touch" temperature of 105* will allow continuous contact. Some people will be able to go higher.

Just FYI

Vernon

Interesting factoid.

 

[Cyberroc]

to the same degree of curvature on all three belts.

Your statement may set reason to the overall problem.

While I won't take away that a better belt will hold up longer or that some may have had too much tension, are there any other brands that function fine running 3 belts off the same tensioner in the same fashion?

I would think that a disruption of even one belt with enough force to affect the tensioner (and thus the other two belts), would have a less than favorable result. It would seem that any issue, along with greater tension than what is called for, would then have a force amplified result.

While it would not be an easy task to test, I wonder if a setup with 3 tensioners (one for each belt) would have a better result.

Dont get me started on how the tensioner bearing mount location being directly under the closest inside belt with no support to the outside of the tensioner may provide less support to the outside belt and thus allowing more travel and relating to quicker wearing of that belt and the relation to cause and affect there after... Sorry, my engineering side is having a bad day.

Thoughts? ok, yes, so in short, it almost seems like it might be the tensioner. IMHO