Carpenter license, money grab or what?

[/pine]

...If you hired someone to do work in your home or business and he does NOT have insurance, wouldn't your homeowner's or business policy cover the damages? If he sues you, you should be cover....right?...

It would depend on the liability limits of your policy...
...if a workman is permanently disabled after falling off a roof, ladder, tree etc., etc...incurred "damages" can well exceed the limits of basic homeowner policies...

That is why it is paramount to make sure all sub-contractors and their employees are covered...the property owner is ultimately responsible...

 

[tcreeley]

....Those that can - do.

Those that can't, find another way.

Regs like money. Folks who aren't wealthy are always looking for a way to work around the regs. It is why most of the carpentry (much of it excellent) in my area is done under the table. If you want peace of mind and can afford it, hire a contractor.
I do hate to see it go that way though.
At one time, to combat "house trailers", my town attempted to set a minimum lot size of 10 acres for residences. There was an outcry, and the lot size was set at two acres.

 

[grsthegreat]

Here in Idaho all contractors have to be licensed and bonded. This is due to too many shady people over the years that have ripped off too many people. Im an electrical contractor and ive had to be licensed, insured and bonded for the past 30 years. I have no problem with other trades having to do the same thing.

It does help keep down competition also...so thats a good thing. this eliminates the fly by night operations that really shouldnt be doint the job. I mean, how hard is it really to get a license. For an electrical contractor you have to show 4 years of verifiable DOCUMENTED electrical employment before you get a journeyman license. Then you need 1 year min as a journeyman before you can apply for contractors test. Theres also a masters level...but i never bothered with that.


and at least here in Idaho (as it was also in Calif when i worked there) licenses proved the following.

1. You have to have had at least 4 years of actual verifiable skill at the trade.
2. You HAVE to have a minimum of $300,000 liability insurance (state emails me yearly to get proof). I have $2,000,000 policy to protect my house and family.
3. You HAVE to have Workers Comp policy in place (also verified yearly)
4. If you have all the following you'll probably be around for some time to fix warranty issues.


Sure, go ahead and hire an unlicensed guy. sure thing he WONT have workers comp or liability insurance as proof of license is required. So if he gets hurt, guess who will get sued.

 

[rogerius]

I explained the rationale in the same sentence you cited...what is it you don't understand about ".i.e., no insurance = no license, no license = no advertising etc..."?

As for insurance...anyone that allows another person to work on their property and said person is not covered by insurance is an ignorant fool...and can possibly lose everything they have of value...AND FWIW...just because a general contractor tells you all his employees and all his sub-contractor employees are covered DOES NOT MAKE IT SO...it is the homeowners responsibility to be certain that anyone working on their property is covered...

If I understand correctly you are trying to say here that the only benefit what consumer has from a license person is the insurance. In that case I'm not buying it; I was hoping for more benefits from a licence.

I term of contractor without insurance, some people said, why don't ask the contractor to sign a waiver and you are out of the hook. Not sure if is the right thing to do but seams this is a backdoor.

Yes, insurance for an owner is a must, but only because the society created this. Couple years ago I was invited in a trip in Europe to visit couple farms in Germany, France and Hungary. I was surprised when I asked couple guys if their insurance covers an accident on the property. They said "if somebody is building a barn on my property it'll be his problem if he's breaking a leg; I'm paying for a job done not for a broken leg." Anyhow seems they have more options and freedom in term of insurance coverage which reflects in prices. On the other hand, in Hungary majority of the farmers doesn't have insurance and the business is going. Only here the system created this commodity of having the insurance to cover if somebody injured on the property. Why is the owner problem if they can not do the job safe, yes accidents happen but as long is not created by the owner why owner insurance needs to pay?

 

[Damifino]

Just wondering if the carpentry profession is regulated or not in your state/province. In Ontario our "sweet government":thumbdown: is planning to impose carpenters to have a licence. Already plumbers and electricians are regulated professions here and I understand for electricians but for plumbers or in future for carpenters why is require? So more restrictions will be in place about who can build your house, barn, shed, etc. and also our pocket will be hurt as well because they need to recover the money for licence and they will ask more money for the job. I'm not sure if that piece of paper will make a better craftsman but I'm sure the experience, talent and knowledge can make one. For government is a good deal as they will collect more taxes but for rest of us.....

Here in Florida, many professionals are licensed (regulated) by the Dept. of professional regulation, they have a division called, construction industry licensing board, I am well versed in the licensed professionals it sends out to protect the health and safety of the public. In my opinion, a lot of these individuals required to uphold those responsibilities are just professorial test takers.

I have worked first hand around enough to know the system is flawed, it would seem that if a program could be implemented like habitat for humanity or similar, to have individual pay a fee as they do now for classes and test, to have the trades qualifying for a license in there trade perform a proctored real world test of their skills and abilities on projects being built, there would be many winners in this type of scenario.
Anyway, there are many trades in this state that are state certified that I would not use for their intended scope of work.

 

[Gem99ultra]

OK ...lets do the right thing here ....

nation wide "standardized test" for all inspectors / trades ...politicians , etc ..... with a good dose of common sense thrown in to the test ( add and subtract, mult and divide in their head ... make change for a sale .... calculate distance and speed .... plus the special items necessary for them to perform their "trade" correctly) pass the "test" or you can't apply ( or be considered ) for the position.

no more nepotism or as Archie Bunker said " theory of relatively" the boss's nephew got the job ....

any board appointees (for 1 year terms and then MUST be replaced) must be certified by a panel of peer trades people (and chosen from the peer people ) before the can "sit" in judgement and make decisions for the trades ..... REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE and wisdom.....

all affected trades must be able to vote on whether they want regulation or not and to what degree ....

and finally a registered "politician school" .... a full time, one year diploma ,.... no diploma, and you can't even run ....
as for the existing cronies, they have till the end of their term to take night school and write the exams or they are out on their ear.

and a limit of 8 years total ( combined ) in any office and they are barred from any further terms in any other office.

life time politicians will be gone, those in power will have to do the will of the people. If you can't get what you want done in 8 years , then you shouldn't be in politics. The old guard will disappear quickly and be replaced with younger faces .... ( not always a bad thing )
new and fresh ideas will be tried .... good ideas will be kept , the bad stuff will fall to the wayside ....
corruption will be weeded out quickly and fully exposed ... ( who would want to carry the baggage from previous politicians? )

Your idea of a good plan is so right and so simple that it'll never come to pass. But if it comes up for a vote - you have mine!

 

[/pine]

If I understand correctly you are trying to say here that the only benefit what consumer has from a license person is the insurance. In that case I'm not buying it; I was hoping for more benefits from a licence.

I term of contractor without insurance, some people said, why don't ask the contractor to sign a waiver and you are out of the hook. Not sure if is the right thing to do but seams this is a backdoor.

Yes, insurance for an owner is a must, but only because the society created this. Couple years ago I was invited in a trip in Europe to visit couple farms in Germany, France and Hungary. I was surprised when I asked couple guys if their insurance covers an accident on the property. They said "if somebody is building a barn on my property it'll be his problem if he's breaking a leg; I'm paying for a job done not for a broken leg." Anyhow seems they have more options and freedom in term of insurance coverage which reflects in prices. On the other hand, in Hungary majority of the farmers doesn't have insurance and the business is going. Only here the system created this commodity of having the insurance to cover if somebody injured on the property. Why is the owner problem if they can not do the job safe, yes accidents happen but as long is not created by the owner why owner insurance needs to pay?

No sorry...I never said anything about a license ONLY being good to protect consumers against liability...but it is a major one...

As far as I know in most states "waivers" rarely hold up in court...the actual property owner is ultimately responsible to some extent regardless...

 

[Gator6x4]

I'm not going to be a big believer in "licensing" until we require some bare minimum licensing standards for becoming a parent.

Think maybe God established licensing when he gave the male and female different attributes and admonished them to go forth and multiply?

 

[Gator6x4]

As someone who has hired good and bad carpenters I would like to see licensing by experience level. A man with a hammer, rough work only, non-finish work, beginner, specialty, master, etc. I hired an individual one time that could stand on the ground and nail something and it would be as level as what I used a level on. Of course he had been doing carpentry work for years and would be in what I call the Master Category.

People with hammers are the most complained on people at Better Business Bureaus. The lack of personal insurance is something else that is scary about men with hammers. Let one get hurt and you will lose everything. Providing a lifetime disability payment to someone who fell of the roof of your house should have a chilling effect on us all.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Think maybe God established licensing when he gave the male and female different attributes and admonished them to go forth and multiply?

As in Adam Nailed Eve... No Pun Intended.