case 446 garden tractor

[copar1973]

it sqeels and dosnt want to move really bad when its hot. i got another used hydro motor and put on a little better. but is it hydro motor or hydralic pump.please help.

 

[The Toolman]

It could be either one. It would be nice if you could ck the pressure's on both though.

 

[mostly_gas]

it sqeels and dosnt want to move really bad when its hot. i got another used hydro motor and put on a little better. but is it hydro motor or hydralic pump.please help.

You might want to check and see if brakes are fully disengaging and change hydro oil and check and see if cooling fins clear fans etc are working

 

[oldtractors]

Make sure you are running 15-40 oil and not hydraulic fluid. Change the oil and put 15-40 Rotella motor oil in the hydraulic system.

 

[s1120]

Make sure you are running 15-40 oil and not hydraulic fluid. Change the oil and put 15-40 Rotella motor oil in the hydraulic system.

Ditto!!

What fluid is in there?

 

[copar1973]

im not sure what fluids in there.i had just recently bought the tractor. but im going to change it to be sure.

 

[old tractor nut]

i need to change my pump because when it gets hot it is loosing power to move even in low range. how many gpm and at what presure. can i put a bit bigger pump in it without hurting my system

 

[hydriv]

i need to change my pump because when it gets hot it is loosing power to move even in low range. how many gpm and at what presure. can i put a bit bigger pump in it without hurting my system

What is the model and serial number of your tractor?

What do you have in the hydraulic system for oil?


You don't need a larger pump. What you do need is a system that has the wear and tear eliminated.

 

[john4153]

My father bought a new Case 444 in about 1970 (bare tractor price then $1,469) and saved all the manuals. Here is what the operator's manual says with respect to oils for S/N 9646801 and later.

Hydraulic System: Use SAE 5W-20 motor oil in Winter (below 32°F) and SAE 20W-40 motor oil in Summer. Use only oil which is rated at API engine service classification SD or CC.

Transmission: Use SAE 20W-40 motor oil or SAE No. 80 EP Gear Lube in transmission the year around.

Engine: SAE 30 or 20W-40 at 30°F and above; SAE 10W-30 at 0°F to 30°F; and SAE5W-20 at 0°F and below.

I know this is late, but I just pulled the tractor out of storage and maybe the information will still be helpful to someone. It is not inconsistent with anything that has been said.

John

 

[hydriv]

No, it isn't inconsistent. It's just badly out of date. Go and try finding 20W40 oil today. Ingersoll themselves sell it as a privately branded product buy you'll pay around $10.00 per quart at the parts counter. Yamaha also sells it as a privately branded product for a similar amount. Even the motorcycle guys complain about that pricing on their forums.

The point is this. 20W40 is next to impossible to find and if you do find it, you won't like the price. If you want a multi-grade for the hydraulic system and the trans-axle, then 20W50 is the closest match but if you are running in temps that are always above freezing, then single -grade 30W is hard to beat. You can get that viscosity in Shell's Rotella T diesel grade motor oil and that oil meets the highest standards out there.

 

[john4153]

@hydriv
I think you missed my point. My intent was to provide a reference point from the manufacturer, outdated as it may be, rather than simply give an opinion. On a forum such as this, there is no way to assess the validity of such opinions. Information from the manufacturer is one way to do that.

Before posting, I searched this forum and did not find any post that actually referenced the original manufacturer's recommentation. Hence, I felt it would add to the discussion and posted it.

Now, what is it about Rotella T that makes it preferable to other brands? (I realize it is sold at WalMart and is relatively inexpensive.)

John

 

[Toyboy]

Rotella T

"it is sold at WalMart and is relatively inexpensive."

BINGO:thumbsup:

 

[moe7404]

if i have posted this before forgive me. my dad bought a new 446 in 1975, he had hyd trouble in the winter i was working at Case experimental shop. in the winter some hyd fluids didnt do well. the Case engineers came out and said to use type "F" trans fluid, in the hyd systems. my dad changed his tractor right then, it worked good. that fluid is still in the tractor, i know i know i should have changed it at lest 4 or 5 times by now.

 

[hydriv]

if i have posted this before forgive me. my dad bought a new 446 in 1975, he had hyd trouble in the winter i was working at Case experimental shop. in the winter some hyd fluids didnt do well. the Case engineers came out and said to use type "F" trans fluid, in the hyd systems. my dad changed his tractor right then, it worked good. that fluid is still in the tractor, i know i know i should have changed it at lest 4 or 5 times by now.

Yes... you have posted that information before.

I don't doubt what you are reporting but let's look at the FACTS.

First of all, where you worked at the Case Racine plant has nothing to do with which oil is the best choice for these tractors. All of the tractors were manufactured in Winneconne, a branch plant that is 123 miles and 2 1/2 hours away from Case headquarters. The engineering was done in Winneconne as was the research and development work. Racine had zero to do with what happened in Winneconne, other than to look at their profit and loss statements quarterly.

Since the day that the Johnson brothers began cranking out Colt 7's and Colt 9's, MOTOR OIL was specified for the hydraulic system in the form of 20W40 grade. Case continued to specify motor oil from 1965 to 1983 when they sold the OPE division to John Ingersoll. Today, Eastman/Ingersoll continues to specify 20W40 motor oil for the hydraulic systems of their tractors and goes so far to have 20W40 bottled for them with their own logo on it.

As I see it, there is a 49 year, continuous history of using the exact same oil. Presumably, this oil choice was made for several important reasons.

1. IT WORKS

2. It's easily found, almost everywhere but not in 20W40 grade...instead, 15W40 or 20W50 are approved. Both are still motor oils.

3. It's inexpensive and that's important. I'll cover that shortly.


Will Type F ATF work? Yes.

Is it a good choice? Not particularly.

If it was superior to 20W40, then Case or Ingersoll would have specified it years ago, when Type F was developed for use in Ford automatic transmissions and power steering units.

I notice that you do not even state what sort of trouble your father was allegedly having with his tractor. Is that not an important piece of information?

Why you feel compelled to go against 49 years of oil choice is baffling to me. What exactly are you trying to prove? If you believe that you have a better idea about oil choice, I suggest that you take a drive to Maine and talk to Nick Nikazmerad at Eastman and see if you can convince him and all the hydraulic engineers he employs to go with Type F auto fluid.

The purpose behind forums is to give out ACCURATE information to those who are in search of answers. If you don't even know enough about your Case tractor to maintain it properly, then are you actually qualified to give out any advice? Since you either do not own an Operator's Manual or you have neglected to read it, I'll tell you that the hydraulic system is supposed to be drained and refilled EVERY YEAR.

So, how many decades has it been since your dad put Type F into that Case he entrusted you with? Perhaps when the pump or the drive motor pukes, you'll get around to it. Then you can have the fun of flushing the complete system a few times to get out all the metal shrapnel that has been created by your neglect. In the meantime, I urge you to just stop giving out erroneous and misleading information to people on the various forums you belong to.

Instead, spend some serious time learning about how to take care of your own tractor. When you get that down pat, maybe then you will be in a position to actually help others.

 

[Travelover]

Is someone having a bad day? :confused2:

 

[moe7404]

i guess i made a mistake in thinking this site wasnt a kids sand box. perhaps i didnt make my self clear. i am NOT saying anyone else should do what i did. iam just saying in extreme cold you CAN use type f. and i WILL stop you from putting down case engineers. i built there equipment and i know they do a good job. if you dont like case stuff, just get rid of yours.

 

[hydriv]

The only mistake you made was in posting about a tractor you know little to nothing about.

In extreme cold weather, owners can follow the advice given by the engineers that designed the hydraulic system. Use 5W20 below 32F. That sentence can be found in any of the Operator's Manuals for these tractors.

It's interesting that on one hand you fully support the Case engineers but you don't believe in following the advice given by the Case engineers at Winneconne about the best oil to use in these tractors.

If you check the entire thread, no one was complaining about cold weather performance so I truly don't understand why you would bring up ATF Type F.