CASE BACKHOE 580C BRAKE PROBLEMS

[mickpo]

I have a Case 580C backhoe. The 3 brake pedals have free play in them before applying brakes as they should. When I put on emergency brake that also works fine. My problem is when I hold my foot on brake pedal and then put emergency brake on emergency brakes work. The problem is when I release the emergency brake the 2 right pedals are rock hard and brakes are not releasing. The only way I can get the brakes to release is to brake a line to let out brake fluid to relieve pressure.
As long as I don't hold the brake pedal down and put emergency brake on together everything works fine. I if use the emergency brake by itself works fine and so do pedals. If I just use the pedals brakes work fine. It is only when I hold the foot brakes on and put emergency brake on that the brakes will not release when I take of the emergency brake.

 

[AllDodge]

If you don't get your answer I would suggest asking at this site
Tractor/Loader/Backhoes | Heavy Equipment Forums

 

[thepumpguysc]

Yes, over at HEF there are always atleast 2 580 rebuilds going on & brakes are always a main topic.. to where to find parts, to making special tools, to proper assembly..

 

[DJ54]

It's been a few years since I reworked the brakes on my 480C, but I'd have to suspect the return spring is stretched, or broken, (part #23 in this exploded view) from Case Construction parts book, Official Case Construction Equipment Online Parts Store and Parts Look Up. Parts for Case Equipment and Construction Equipment. Parts Store for Case Wheel Loaders, Case Excavators, Case Skid Steers, Case Original Parts.. Or the hand brake adjusting rod needs adjusted up some. (#31 in the exploded view) Being the far right pedal is the master brake pedal activating both L&R brakes, and center pedal is for the right brake, when you press the pedal, and pull the parking brake, it could possibly nearly pull the handbrake lever over center, and not return. (#26 in this exploded view) Official Case Construction Equipment Online Parts Store and Parts Look Up. Parts for Case Equipment and Construction Equipment. Parts Store for Case Wheel Loaders, Case Excavators, Case Skid Steers, Case Original Parts.

I know when I took mine apart, the brake lever (#1) where it pivots on the pivot pin (part #2) Official Case Construction Equipment Online Parts Store and Parts Look Up. Parts for Case Equipment and Construction Equipment. Parts Store for Case Wheel Loaders, Case Excavators, Case Skid Steers, Case Original Parts. would move, but was binding just a bit due to rust, dirt, & corrosion. It would move, but not like it did after some lubrication.

Look close at parts 2&4, and 5 & 6 in the above view. Both are pivot pins, but 2 & 4 must be the upgraded version with a grease zerk, that looks nearly impossible to get a gun on, and 2 & 4 are the early version. I had the brake housing off, when I was redoing the brakes, so it was easy to work on. Be forewarned, if you happen to remove the brake housing, the boltholes where the bolts go in that hold the housing on, go clear in to the rear diffy housing, and will let oil out, if you remove them.

To be honest, it's been so long, and I've worked on so many other items since then, I can't remember which pin is like in mine, but do remember it was binding a bit, and I did grease, or remove and put never seize on it. None the less, it has worked fine since then, but hasn't been worked in the conditions it was, before I bought it.

Hope this helps..!!

 

[mickpo]

Nothing seems to be sticking or rusted fast. When the brake pedals are hard all I got to do is crack a brake line somewhere and bleed some fluid out and the brakes go back to working normal. It seems to be a brake fluid problem not getting back to master cylinder. But when you just use the foot pedals or the emergency brakes separate, the brakes work fine and fluid returns back to master cylinder. So you would think the master cylinder is working fine. The same also applies to the wheel cylinder which is new and works fine when using the brake pedal or emergency brake separately. The problem only occurs when you hold the brake pedal on and apply the emergency brake. When you release emergency brake the wheel cylinder still has fluid pressure in it and does not release, bleed the pressure off and everything goes back to normal.

 

[DJ54]

This only happens on the right brake, correct..?? I'm not sure why you are holding the pedals when setting the parking brake, unless it is in a spot where it will roll if you don't. If that is the case, try holding the machine in place with the left brake only, then set the parking brake. Then release the parking brake, and see if it will move. If it releases like it should, then it's limited to the right brake only.

Still can't help but think when using the right brake to hold in place, while you set the parking brake, it's taking that brake lever arm over center, not allowing it to return far enough to release.

First I'd have to ask how far the adjusting knob on the parking brake handle has been adjusted, and how much adjustment is left on the hand brake rod (#31). If the knob is adjusted as far as it will go, and you have plenty of adjustment left on the brake rod, I'd back the knob off all the way, then adjust the brake rod up about 3/4 of the way, then use the knob on the handle to get enough brake to hold it in place. Making those adjustments should also pull the brake rod back far enough, to keep it from going over center, and locking things up.

You may even get you a helper, and have them set the brakes, then release, while you are underneath, to see if that brake lever rod is releasing. Being there is no power assist on the brakes, you can do this without it running. Just block the wheels, put the outriggers, and front bucket down to keep it from rolling over you. It could even be the cable hanging up in the sheath.

If everything inside the brake housing is clean, and free to move, along with everything on the outside, it doesn't take all that much adjustment to go from mediocre, half pedal, or less brakes, to flat stopping it in it's tracks, with 3/4 of the way out solid pedal with light pressure on the pedal.

 

[DLTTrekkers]

Mybe your pedalfreetravel is not enough ?

 

[mickpo]

Yes I use the brake pedal to hold the machine in place and apply the emergency brake when on a grade. Yes this only happens on the right 2 brake pedals. Left brake pedal works fine when I leave off the emergency brake. So in thinking about this and watching it operate from inside cab with no floor plate in while troubleshooting. When you pull emergency brake by itself it does not use and brake fluid to put brakes on. Only cable pulls mechanism to activate brakes. So when I have the foot pedal depressed it is putting fluid into the wheel cylinder and when you take off foot pedal and ebrake the fluid does not travel back to reservoir. Ebrake cable is free. So it must be in master cylinder, but why does master cylinder work fine when using the foot pedals only? Like I said before when this happens, just crack the line at wheel cylinder and you can watch
the fluid come out and all mechanical parts go back to normal position and work when I tighten line back up.

 

[DLTTrekkers]

Give that pedal more freeplay

 

[DJ54]

Setting the parking brake will have no affect on the left brake, as the parking brake lever only sets the right brake.

What kind of condition is the short rubber flex line in, that attaches to the wheel cylinder..?? And what kind of condition is/are the fitting(s) in where the rubber line connects to the metal line, on the master cylinder side..?? I'm wondering for some reason, when you activate the right brake using the pedal, and parking brake, if there is a flap, from deterioration on the inside of the rubber line pops up, and blocks fluid from returning. Theoretically, it maybe should do it when using the pedal alone, but then again using both may make a sudden rush of fluid to flip a small piece on the inside up, and block fluid from returning. I have heard of rubber lines on older cars with manual/not power brakes doing that.

That's why I was wondering what condition that connection is in, where it connects to the metal line. If you could crack the line there to relieve pressure, instead of the bleeder valve, if no, fluid comes out to release the brake, you've found the problem. If it does, you're back to square one, and could very well be the master cylinder. I just don't want you to twist the lines, and have to replace them. Trust me, you don't want to buy a preformed line from Case. I had to replace the right brake lines on mine, (there are 2). For the price of those 2 lines, I bought a double flare tool from Eastwood. and 2 rolls of Ni-Cop line, and a variety of fittings, to make them for less money. And still had enough line to make at least 4 more, plus the fittings.

If it would happen to be the rubber flex line that is the problem, you'll get it 10% cheaper through a Case/AG Ag. dealer, than a Case Construction dealer. I had to replace mine, and really lucked out and found an OEM one a guy had on ebay, for $20 less than dealer price. That little rubber line is $53 at Case Construction. $48 at an Ag, dealer, just checked prices. Higher on ebay, and WAY higher at Amazon. Broken Tractor has an aftermarket one for for $38.00. https://www.brokentractor.com/p/case-brake-hose-from-slave-cylinder-to-steel-line-d66741-d66741/

If it would happen to be the master cylinder, through Case Construction, they are $356.50 ea. I just found an aftermarket one on ebay for $53.95 w.free shipping. Back when I did mine approx. 8 years ago, I got mine here Remanufactured Transmissions, Torque Converters, Engines - Joseph Industries $48 each. They still work as they should, so no complaints here. Also got a water pump for it 3-4 years ago, for less than anyone else online. It too is holding up so far. They don't list too many prices, so you have to call and check. They are located approx. 120 miles from me, and if I order before 10:00 am, parts are here the next day. You may even find one for less somewhere else, if you use the part number to look for one. You may find that neither is the problem, but just remember if you do need a part, use the OEM part number to do your search.

 

[mickpo]

Lines are new as well as wheel cylinders and emergency brake cable. If I bleed off pressure at master cylinder fluid comes out and brakes work fine until you use the foot pedal and ebrake together again. So that should eliminate any blockage in line theory. I'm stumped, but not giving up yet. I was thinking about swapping out left and right master cylinders with each other, but they work fine when just using the pedals.

 

[DLTTrekkers]

You still do not beliefe it can be the freetravel at the brakemastersilinder . There is not enough fteetravel ! Trapped oil gets hot and you get a pressue build up ! Give it just a bit more freetravel !

 

[mickpo]

Have 3 inches of free travel already.

 

[DJ54]

The only place I see a check valve in the system, is in the master cylinder. The only other thing I can think it would be, if the return springs on the outside are all OK, would be the springs of the expanding plates inside the brake housing. Could be one broke, and when applying both, it cocks, and binds the brake discs, on the bull pinion shaft. Hard to diagnose,without actually seeing what is going on, with all of those pieces/parts.

Might be an idea to get a helper, and have them push & set the brake, and you look from underneath. Could be something you're not seeing from up top.

 

[mickpo]

The wheels cylinders, the rubber brake lines and ebrake cable all new. When I bleed off at the right master cylinder everything goes back to normal until you use the pedals and ebrake again. So that should eliminate the blockage of return in the line back to master cylinder. Have lots of free travel in pedals. So last night I wanted to eliminate the master cylinder as possible problem. I disconnected the brake line from left master cylinder that works fine on the left brake. Hooked a temporary line from left master to right wheel cylinder, still get the same problem. My thought are possible wheel cylinder. I might swap wheel cylinders from each side next.

 

[DLTTrekkers]

My next q is ....what tipe of oil did you fill the brake reservoir with ? And what tipe is the correct oil that must be used ?
Wrong oil will tel that seals swell and then that inner piston will stuck inside the mastersilinders.

 

[mickpo]

I use regular brake fluid, I had the right wheel cylinder off yesterday to hook up temporary brake line from left master cylinder to eliminate the possibility of bad master cylinder. The wheel cylinder moved in and out freely.

 

[DJ54]

Have you had the brake assembly off on the right side..?? This whole time I was picturing brakes on the old 310B, and not the 480C. Once I saw it, it came back to me. I just worked on so many things since then, it escaped me.

I do recall a lot of fine dirt dust in the housing, and things being half frozen up, and binding. I did replace the brake bands on both sides, and the 1" ball bearings. They were rusty, and were pitted pretty bad. They even had some, sort of flat spots on them, which was actually rust. I tapped them with a small hammer to clean them up, but was pitted below that, and pretty rough. At the time Joseph Industries had them for like 75 cents each, so ordered a new set for each side.

If you haven't had it off, be aware when you take the bottom bolt out, it's drilled out clear into the differential housing, and you'll lose differential oil, unless you drain it down first.