Cattle, Goats and Sheep

[EddieWalker]

Can you have all three animals in the same pasture? From what I'm reading, both sheep and goats eat different plants then cattle, including weeds that cattle don't eat.

Would a four foot tall fence like this work for all animals? Goat Fence, 48 in. x 330 ft. - Tractor Supply Co.

What about adding a string or two of barb wire at the top to keep the cattle from pushing on it?

Thank you,

Eddie

 

[quicksandfarmer]

You can have all three. The biggest problem you'll probably run into is that the fencing requirements are different, a fence that will hold cows won't hold goats. Goats need a lot more protection from predators, particularly dogs and coyotes. Barbed wire was made for cows. It doesn't work so well with goats, they constantly test fences and they will tear themselves up on barbed.

I'd do the goat fence with a strand of electric on top to keep cows from leaning on it and goats from climbing over it. You may need another strand a few inches off the ground to keep goats and dogs from going under the bottom.

 

[bindian]

Eddie,
If you raise sheep, make sure their enclosure is safe. Sheep are dumb, dumb, dumb and can kill themselves. I know, as I raised show wethers in high school. One caught his neck in a hay manger and choked his self to death. If he would have just raised his head up, all would have been fine.
hugs<<><><>>Brandi

 

[Loren49]

I have that woven wire fence for my sheep and a goat. I ran a strand of barbed wire just above the ground and also a strand a few inches above the woven wire. If cattle rub against the fence you may want an electrified wire around the inside. I used the woven wire to keep predators out as much as keep the sheep in.

Loren

 

[weldingisfun]

Eddie, be careful with TSC and Red Brand fencing. TSC advertises that it sells Red Brand but they don't, they carry a different "cheaper" brand. I use the Red Brand Sheep Fence and it is very good fencing. The openings are small enough to prevent the goats from getting their heads through and getting caught. Another and equally good fencing is Stay Tuff Home of the Fixed Knot Fence It is made right here in New Braunfels, Texas and lives up to it's name. It is really tough. You use bolt cutters to cut it. It costs a little more than Red Brand, but it will last a lifetime. Down here, Stay Tuff is carried by McCoys Building Supply https://www.mccoys.com/ .

Goats will rub against your fence and will bow it out. The only way to prevent it is with electricity. Run a strand about 18 to 24 inches off the ground, depending on the size of your goats and they will find another place to rub, mostly on your trees. Since you have no rocks up there, rock cribs are not an option for you.

I agree with what has been said by others, goats, cattle and sheep can be run together. The goats eat the rough stuff and the sheep and cattle the grasses, they compliment each other. You will have groomed pastures.

Looking forward to seeing what you build for this new venture.

 

[EddieWalker]

Thank you. I wasn't sure about the Red Brand fencing, I just saw it at Lowes and found a quick link online to post what I was considering. I'm familiar with Stay Tuff and will go with them. I also like McCoys and know most everyone who works there. Our long term goal is to fence in the front half of the land for cattle and be able to have a few other animals in there too. Karen wants goats, I want hair sheep. Might even have a few blackbuck antelope. Then the back half we want to high fence and have some elk and a few other exotics for pets and taking pictures. To keep our ag exception, we'll sell some of them every year for whatever we can get for them. Not expecting to make anything out of it, just want the animals here and to keep our exception in place to keep our taxes down.

From what I've read, sheep cannot tolerate zinc, but goats have to have it. Some people say not to mix them because of the zinc issue and that it will kill the sheep if they get it. Others have said that you just have to be sure to give the goats some zinc in their food from time to time and to make sure the sheep don't get any of it. We are not talking about a lot of either species, but I honestly don't know how many we'll have. The trick will be in keeping Karen from getting too many!!! LOL

Every side of where I'll put the fence has access to both sides of it as pasture on one side for the animals and trails or roads on the other side except one area about that is about a thousand feet long. This is at the front of the land and there are currently a line of trees there that we like to block the view of the road. I plan on keeping those trees there and was wondering if there is any issues with fencing right up close to them to get as much pasture land as possible? I realize that a tree might fall on the fence, but if I move the fence ten feet away from the trees, if one falls, it will cause the same problems. I will have access to both sides, but the wooded side would mean going through the trees a short distance from the road side.

Eddie

 

[oosik]

Eddie - from what I've seen, its wise to have multiple fenced pastures. A good friend(Basque) about 40 miles down the road runs a lot(4000+) of sheep and they can eat everything, right down to bare earth. He is rotating them almost continuously but still faces the "bare earth" situation. By spring time, when the grass lands start all over again, things look pretty bare and dusty. He obviously runs more than the land can support because he feeds them year round.

 

[EddieWalker]

I've been thinking about rotating pastures, but this is more of a hobby type thing that I'm going to do. The easier and simpler I can make it, the more it appeals to me. I've heard of running a temporary hot wire across an area to give the areas they are hitting harder some time to rest and I might do something like that if I have to. My thinking is to only have a few animals and not even come close to over grazing it. Grass grow really fast hear and it's pretty thick. I'll start out with a few animals and then add them as I can afford it and what I feel the land can support. Simple and naïve going into this that will probably change as I learn more about what I'm doing.

Eddie

 

[mikim]

I just put up 5 rolls of that goat fence and plan to add 2 runs of electric but haven't got to it yet. I want to do some traveling like y'all before I get animals. They keep you home. Trevor is turning 13 in a week and I'd like to take him & Bernice overseas some place. I've been .... and I think they would both enjoy seeing a strange land. After that I'll stay home and love doing so. I think I want to try milk goats...Bernice wants miniature anything......oh -- I rigged a "spinner" for running that fence that worked really well. I just hung a chain off my grapple with a (can't think of the name right now....a spinner connection, turn buckle thingy that can spin), down through the roll of fence, to a piece of angle iron on the bottom that held the roll up. And I made my own stretcher that grabs the top and bottom wires and doesn't crink the fabric.

 

[deerseeker001]

Eddie check this out on the web,nite-guard solar lite predator control keeps chickens and livestock safe.

Thank you. I wasn't sure about the Red Brand fencing, I just saw it at Lowes and found a quick link online to post what I was considering. I'm familiar with Stay Tuff and will go with them. I also like McCoys and know most everyone who works there. Our long term goal is to fence in the front half of the land for cattle and be able to have a few other animals in there too. Karen wants goats, I want hair sheep. Might even have a few blackbuck antelope. Then the back half we want to high fence and have some elk and a few other exotics for pets and taking pictures. To keep our ag exception, we'll sell some of them every year for whatever we can get for them. Not expecting to make anything out of it, just want the animals here and to keep our exception in place to keep our taxes down.

From what I've read, sheep cannot tolerate zinc, but goats have to have it. Some people say not to mix them because of the zinc issue and that it will kill the sheep if they get it. Others have said that you just have to be sure to give the goats some zinc in their food from time to time and to make sure the sheep don't get any of it. We are not talking about a lot of either species, but I honestly don't know how many we'll have. The trick will be in keeping Karen from getting too many!!! LOL

Every side of where I'll put the fence has access to both sides of it as pasture on one side for the animals and trails or roads on the other side except one area about that is about a thousand feet long. This is at the front of the land and there are currently a line of trees there that we like to block the view of the road. I plan on keeping those trees there and was wondering if there is any issues with fencing right up close to them to get as much pasture land as possible? I realize that a tree might fall on the fence, but if I move the fence ten feet away from the trees, if one falls, it will cause the same problems. I will have access to both sides, but the wooded side would mean going through the trees a short distance from the road side.

Eddie

 

[KiotiJason]

Eddie,
Running sheep and goats after horses or cattle is really good to maintain the pasture ( rotating). I'f you are looking for meat I'd go with Dorper sheep so your not having to shear them as they are self shedding. We have them and they are bread for meet and big stocky animals. They often have twins and are very good readers and lamb at anytime. They are also well suited to dryer climates as the are from South Africa. The fencing is the biggest issue though as previous posters gave suggested. You might have to go with a goat/ sheep set up with electric. You will still need to think about yarding etc, but you would be doing that with cattle anyway.

 

[1Lawman]

Eddie,

Give me call when you get ready for sheep..Also I'll second the Stay Tuff Fence..I installed two miles of it years ago and it still looks new.. It's not zinc that can kill sheep..It's copper..But if you get St. Croix hair sheep you will not have a problem with excess copper...Take a look at our website..Good luck Mud Puddle Ranch

 

[sseelhoff]

Eddie,

Give me call when you get ready for sheep..Also I'll second the Stay Tuff Fence..I installed two miles of it years ago and it still looks new.. It's not zinc that can kill sheep..It's copper..But if you get St. Croix hair sheep you will not have a problem with excess copper...Take a look at our website..Good luck Mud Puddle Ranch

Nice website. What you are doing is impressive!

 

[RichZ]

Eddie, as others have said all 3 can get along fine, and as has been said before it is copper that is toxic to sheep, not zinc. I have goats, sheep, llamas, alpacas and mini horses together in the same pasture. I would recommend using cattle panels for the fencing. Red Brand fencing is fine, until the goats start pulling it down. I started off with that on my first farm, but now, with my second and larger farm, I have used cattle panels that are 16 feet long and 4 feet high. The goats can't pull them down, and they would hold cattle nicely, since that's what they're designed to do.

If you give them any feed, you have to make sure it's cooper free. Stock and Stable by Nutrena or All Stock by Agway are two good multi species feeds that all three can consume safely. Give them only the white salt blocks, since the mineral blocks all have copper.

 

[DennisArrow]

Lots of stuff here.......As a goat guy, as is, Welding is Fun......I totally agree with the need for a electric wire maybe 18 to 24 inches up to keep the goats from rubbing a huge bow in your fence. We have the TSC "red top" fence wire for sheep and goats. May 5200' all together with another 4000' or so of just 5 strand electric. Wit.h either, it's a rare day for one to go through the electric and have never had one go through the woven wire. Some goats will just get their heads stuck in a fence no matter what it is. MOST.....most.....never do...Yes you need a strand of barb or electric on top for cattle or horses; but NOT for goats.

NOW the serious part.........Parasites PARASITES.......PARASITES........for me a goat is just a critter lookin for a place to die.........truly...........YES, goat must have copper, lots of it.....Sheep, seldom. If you put out minerals for the goats, the sheep will get into it and then do poorly.... When you bring in new sheep with your goats, they will almost always have liver flukes which the goats seldom do......Guess who picks up the flukes from the sheep and then do realllllly poorly......Sheep eat closer to the ground than goats and the parasitic worms climb up what is left of the grass and the goats graze what they typically don't, usually high grass and browse; but all that is there is short grass with parasitic eggs and they eat them........

Goats, horse, cattle.....just fine......Sheep, horse, cattle.....just fine......sheep and goats with anything....NOT for me...........God bless.......Dennis
it

 

[texasjohn]

I grew up on a ranch which ran goats, cattle and sheep all together in various mixes. Trace minerals are not a problem. Poisonous weeds can be. Be SURE and get sheep/goats which were born/raised locally...they will know which ones to avoid. There are numerous stories of people who import animals from elsewhere who are unaware which local weeds are poisonous and death rates can be high.
Billy goats STINK when mature...not very romantic at all. They can also become aggressive to people if you make pets out of them...don't do it...make them keep their distance from you...a foot or so...else they will butt you/anyone to find out who is tougher...and will not learn once they lose their fear of you. That said, I recommend goats ahead of sheep. They more frequently have twins or triplets. And the market for cabrito is good.

I recommend you stay with goats and/or sheep. You can manhandle them. Not so with cows...and cattle need far more infrastructure to be safe...stronger pens, higher fences, bigger trailers, a squeeze chute to doctor/manage them. Keeping a bull so you can have calves is lots of food for few calves. Getting run over by a momma cow is one time too many. Making sure you have gentle cows is harde nless you are experienced with cattle. And, even then, loading cattle into a trailer requires skill. Cattle can actually hurt you bad. Your ag exemption only requires income from farm products...cows not required.


It is VERY EASY to get too many animal units in one pasture...leading to severely degraded grass which takes years to recover. Do not overstock. One animal unit is a cow+calf or a bull or 4 sheep/goats.
You can get the county ag people to tell you how many animal units you can run, year round. You must figure this number out and stay well under the number. You are going for a picturesque setting....so beware that too many animals will give you bare ground and goats will stand on their back legs and eat as high as they can reach on brush and trees...which can be good if you want things to look like a park...or not if you wish undercover for rabbits, etc.

Basically, a fence that will hold sheep/goats will hold cattle...and using a single wire of electric fence on the inside will protect the fence. Cattle, once trained to an electric fence will stay within a single wire of electric fence...until a baby calf comes along, then it will bumble through ...

All your animals should be managed using "call up" feed to bring them into the pens/sheds....much cheaper than trying to cowboy with horses.
In our area, yours too I would wager, the only way to avoid the heartbreak of coyote/dog predation...and hog...is to put them in a tight shed at night...not just a pen.

If you go with any electric fence, get back with me...I have experience and can recommend the type of charger, insulators, and fence tester to get. In particular, I have found a fence tester which leads you directly to the problem area of a fence very fast...sooooooo much better than the 5 light fence testers.

Remember, the more pastures you have, the more water solutions you will need to install...and keep operating....and while it would seem a simple thing to keep a trough operational, they seem to malfunction multiple times a year.

Also, consider that with animals, you need to daily make sure they are OK...thus need a trusted person to watch over them when on safari!
Enjoy the adventure...much to learn..suggest you first visit somebody who has been keeping each of the target species for several years, observe their facilities and animal behavior and discuss how they handle them to doctor and sell.

Here is info on each type of fence by animal type.
Langston University Goat Research Extension

 

[EddieWalker]

I want to do some traveling like y'all before I get animals. They keep you home. Trevor is turning 13 in a week and I'd like to take him & Bernice overseas some place. I've been .... and I think they would both enjoy seeing a strange land.

Mike, did you see my album from Europe last year? https://www.facebook.com/EdwardDavi...0201359239605661.1073741825.1313824209&type=3 I've been to 37 countries and completely around the planet. This was the best trip I've done and something I would highly recommend. Being in the ship every night meant not having to pack and go to different hotels. It meant having a good meal every morning and night without worrying what you are getting or what it costs. A day was plenty to see everything we wanted to see every day.

Take a look at Cruise One for what's available and costs. CruiseOne | Dream cruise vacations start here It's where we start planning and trying to figure out what we want to see. We are still discussing what our next big trip will be. If it's a cruise, we're leaning towards Northern Europe with hopes it will be similar to what we experienced in the Mediterranean.

If there is a single country in Europe that is better then all the others, it has to be Italy. There is just so much to see there!!!!!

You only live once, go for it

Eddie

 

[mikim]

Eddie--- yeah I saw your trip pics....we're not big on the idea of boats at all. I haven't visited as many countries as you have -- mine were all working/living there --3 1/2 years in Germany with time spent in Spain, Holland,and France. A year in Thailand during "that" war. Temporary duty (month at a time) in Korea, with passing through Hawaii & Guam, overnight in PI before the volcano. I've never had any interest in seeing NYC or Rome....and the guys I knew that went to Venice spent the whole time fighting off pick pockets - and their rental car got broke into. -- don't need that hassle. On the other hand - people I've talked to that have visited and lived there say China is the safest country you could ever visit. Crime rate is low because the punishment for the slightest offense is so high. Wife would like to chase her ancestry around Germany & Czechoslovakia and we can do that easy enough cause I drove around there for years so have some idea of where I'd be going and what to see. One of the places she wants to visit is 30 minutes from where I was stationed. ---China on the other hand is a culture and totally different from what we are used to seeing, tasting, experiencing. AND we have a step grandson who is a champion runner - 5k - 10k - marathon - and has been invited to run in a race in Brisbane next summer....will have to go to that one. Maybe make a trip to Bangkok, Christ Church, Brisbane, Hawaii ...and spend several days at each. I don't like the idea of 12 countries in 10 days....too much hurry....At any rate --after whatever trip we make I'll be ready to stay home til I go home ...and then I'll get a few animals to play with.

 

[EddieWalker]

China is on my bucket list!!!! Gonna make it there one of these days just to see the wall.

Eddie

 

[mikim]

China is on my bucket list!!!! Gonna make it there one of these days just to see the wall.

Eddie

I saw a tour on some site last year that started at the wall, went on the Yangste river overnite cruise, terra cote army, a couple of other places and there was an option to end either in Shanghai or Hongkong. It was about 10 days. I'd like to go back to Bangkok just cause I think I could still talk enough to be able to get around off the regular tourist route. I'd take the wife to the main local market - if it's still there - crazy place - buy whatever you want in a maze of tiny alleys - with food vendors every 5th spot.