Caught in a bind - '08 F-150 & Aluma 7818

nikdfish · Nov 25, 2013

I find myself in somewhat of a catch 22. We bought an 1100 lb., 18' Aluma car hauler w/ tandem 3.5K axles. We have a 2008 F-150 that came with the factory tow package, including the hitch. The F-150 hitch indicates a max of 500 lb. tongue weight & 5000 lb. towed weight unless weight distribution is added, which bumps the numbers to 900/9000. We should be able to carry up to 3900 lb. on the Aluma without exceeding the non-WD numbers and so far this has been a non-issue as we have only been transporting the 1025R FILB. We should also be OK (although closer to the non-WD max) in transporting the 3038E w/FEL & loaded rear tires & a "light" attachment like box blade or finish mower.

I got to thinking about hauling the 3038E with one of the heavier attachments like the 60" tiller, chipper or rotary cutter and figured weight distribution might be a good thing to consider to get a bit more breathing room. I did some searching to see if anyone had posted their experience with the Aluma's and WD and ran across a posting on the Aluma-KLM website "forum" where an owner asked about WD recommendations for use with an 8218 (similar to mine, but with a tilt bed). The response from the moderator was "We don't recommend that." Nothing more, no explanation. It may have to do with the aluminium construction & the architecture of the hitch assembly, but that is just guessing.

I then thought about finding an aftermarket hitch that had better numbers for non-WD towing & found several that could accomodate up to 900 lb tongue weight & 9000 lb. towed weight without WD. Sounds good, right? The only problem is that none work on an '08 F-150 with a factory hitch. Ford used different bumpers when the factory hitch is installed & the hitch is designed to function as the mount for those bumpers. Drop the hitch & the bumper goes also. The aftermarket F-150 hitches are not designed to function like the '08 factory hitches.

It is the wife's truck & she likes it so trade-in really isn't too likely.

Nick

timswi · Nov 25, 2013

Get a WD...I paid $350 for mine *Reese Pro Series, whatever that means*. An extra 10 or less minutes to connect and well worth it if needed. Can't speak to your specific needs as I'm not a Ford guy.

nikdfish · Nov 25, 2013

I would prefer to do WD if it is a viable option, but not sure if there is something that would make it a bad idea for an Aluma aluminium trailer. Hopefully I misinterpreted the moderator's comment on their website & "don't recommend" only meant they don't do specific brand recommendations. I've got an email in to the Aluma folks, but haven't heard anything back yet. I'm hoping someone has first hand knowledge about the Aluma + weight distribution thing.

Nick

Reg · Nov 25, 2013

Sounds like Ford has deliberately PRECLUDED a heftier hitch.
As to why,,, there might be VERY GOOD reasons, but I can only speculate - I could exceed several thousand words on it.

BTW, a couple of 3500 lb axles with suitable tires SHOULD be able to support 5,900 (if it weighs 1100).
SOME trailer manufacturers leave it at that, others regard the tongue load as being carried by the truck (which it IS) so figure another 10 to 15 percent.

Upgrading the bits at the back of the truck doesn't alter the geometry of the truck, i.e. the wheelbase is what it is and the distance from the hitch ball to the rear axle remains the same, so tendencies toward such FUN conditions as light/vague steering are just as likely as before. This just might be Ford's #1 rationale - MAYBE.
I wouldn't mess with it, better to buy a beater truck just for hauling equipment around and keep the wife's truck purdy.

94BULLITT · Nov 26, 2013

I think it also has to do with what the truck can take. A WD hitch puts weight on the front axle. With out one you will probably overload the rear axle and the front axle will be light and the truck won't handle or brake properly. I would call the trailer manufacturer and see what they say about a WD hitch on your trailer.

Sent from my GT-P3113 using TractorByNet

Ken45101 · Nov 26, 2013

Partly it depends on how you are using the trailer, IMO. Once or twice a year hauling the tractor 5 miles on slow, straight roads, no big deal. Hauling the trailer, fully loaded 50 miles, every week, on curvy, hilly, traffic busy highways at 55 mph? That's a different story. The big difference there is the speeds and the quality of the roads.

Also, how well can you property balance the tractor on the trailer? If you have extra room, you can position the tractor for the proper 10-15% on the tongue. However, if you don't have the room and it only fits in one spot where the weight distribution is wrong, then you need a better setup (or a bigger trailer.)

I used to occasionally haul my M4700 with loader and bushhog on a car hauler with a half ton pickup. It was a nerve wracking experience. Later, when I got a 3/4 ton truck, it was worlds better. Now I have a gooseneck and haul heavier loads with a 1 ton dually and I don't even notice the trailer back there!

Reg · Nov 26, 2013

I don't think swapping out the Ford hitch for some aftermarket one with a higher rating is wise.
That would ONLY upgrade the hitch itself (at BEST, though more likely just the ball mount).
Everything else would stay pretty much as it was, e.g. stresses on and throughout the truck.

As far as the trailer itself is concerned a (so called) WDH could be a very bad idea IF the trailer's A-frame can't take the bending stress - which (if it is "aluminum") may be the rationale behind the moderator's statement that they (Aluma) "don't recommend that".
I assume the mod is an Aluma company employee.

BTW WDH is a misnomer - no way does the "WEIGHT" get distributed by lift bars on a hitch, the WEIGHT stays right there on the trailer wherever it was - the resultant "hitch LOAD" does become distributed (kinda/sorta).

nikdfish · Nov 26, 2013

FWIW, 7k is well within the tow capacity of the truck as configured (per Ford). Ford is the source of the requirement for weight distributing equipment when towing 5k+ loads. Still waiting on a response from AlumaKLM to an email query regarding whether or not WD is officially "not recommended" for my trailer model.

There is no prohibition on WD hitch use in the Aluma documentation. The only reference I was able to find to WD hitch use in the trailer user manual was regarding the use of commercial truck scales to check tongue weight and a passing comment regarding use of individual axle weights to verify that a WD hitch is properly adjusted so as to preserve the front/rear proportional weight distribution of the tow vehicle when the trailer is attached.

Nick

Reg · Nov 26, 2013

Perhaps significant only in their absence, I didn't find any ad space for WDH on Aluma's web site.
Can't say I searched their site thoroughly, but had expected to find them under accessories - nope.

handirifle · Nov 28, 2013

I would say find out what the tongue weight will be, and if a WD hitch is called for, CALL THE TRAILER MFG, and find out if they recommend against one.

Worst case scenario, they say no, and you have to load it light.

nikdfish · Nov 28, 2013

I have a query in with AlumaKLM (the manufacturer) & haven't gotten a response yet. When I asked the dealer I purchased from about his recommendation on WD for my specific trailer, he just recommended a trunnion style hitch without expanding further. If I don't get an email response from AlumaKLM this week, I'll try getting a knowledgeable rep on the phone next week.

Probably 95% of all we ever would use the trailer for won't bump the 500/5000 trigger point for WD & the remaining 5% would probably never exceed 580/5800 at the heaviest (i.e. about 4700 lb. cargo).

Nick

nikdfish · Dec 5, 2013

I finally talked with a technician at AlumaKLM about weight distribution. He indicated that WD is indeed not recommended for my Aluma model 7818. He said that according to their engineer, the tongue is not designed to accommodate the forces associated with WD hitches and that "they aren't really needed". I pointed out that with regard to the '08 Ford factory hitch it was indeed necessary if I wanted to take full advantage of the trailer's cargo capacity. I also pointed out that Alumas' incompatibility with WD was not articulated anywhere on their site or literature, that their dealers are also apparently not aware of the shortcoming & that the matter should be clearly spelled out for any potential buyer before they buy.

Kinda PO'd at the moment.

Nick

Diamondpilot · Dec 5, 2013

nikdfish said:
I finally talked with a technician at AlumaKLM about weight distribution. He indicated that WD is indeed not recommended for my Aluma model 7818. He said that according to their engineer, the tongue is not designed to accommodate the forces associated with WD hitches and that "they aren't really needed". I pointed out that with regard to the '08 Ford factory hitch it was indeed necessary if I wanted to take full advantage of the trailer's cargo capacity. I also pointed out that Alumas' incompatibility with WD was not articulated anywhere on their site or literature, that their dealers are also apparently not aware of the shortcoming & that the matter should be clearly spelled out for any potential buyer before they buy.

Kinda PO'd at the moment.

Nick

I would be PO'd also. The only way you can use the max trailer capacity is to have a 3/4 ton truck and even then you will need a late model with a modern hitch.

Chris

Reg · Dec 5, 2013

I wrote to them and got a reply.

SUMMARY:
Not recommended on their standard production trailers.
Reinforced A-frame can be built in for special order.
(no cost estimate given)

My reaction, though I haven't replied (yet);
I had better not buy anything straight off a dealer's lot.
Not sure that I would want to special order one with a reinforced A-frame.

It has me wondering about the whole design approach, i.e. whether or not the rated load is ASSUMED to be evenly distributed.
For lumber and other material that may be OK, but for hauling things like tractors or other equipment the ability to carry point loads MATTERS,
e.g. the ONE cross beam under a tractor's rear tires had better be able to stand up.

Right now I'm thinking "Flimsy".

94BULLITT · Dec 5, 2013

I guess that is one of those things the dealer forgot to tell you.

Most people would probably use the trailer without a WDH.

HHR · Dec 5, 2013

Reg said:
I wrote to them and got a reply. SUMMARY: Not recommended on their standard production trailers. Reinforced A-frame can be built in for special order. (no cost estimate given) My reaction, though I haven't replied (yet); I had better not buy anything straight off a dealer's lot. Not sure that I would want to special order one with a reinforced A-frame. It has me wondering about the whole design approach, i.e. whether or not the rated load is ASSUMED to be evenly distributed. For lumber and other material that may be OK, but for hauling things like tractors or other equipment the ability to carry point loads MATTERS, e.g. the ONE cross beam under a tractor's rear tires had better be able to stand up. Right now I'm thinking "Flimsy".

I've never seen a WD hitch on a straight tongue trailer. Not sure how you could mount one without putting massive amounts of force on a single spot on the trailer tongue. Being that this is an aluminum trailer, I wouldn't want to be the first one to try either.
I assume that the trailer we're referencing has a tongue shaped like a "Y" and not a "V"

Reg · Dec 6, 2013

There are "pole tongue adapters" for what you call straight tongue trailers.
I built one for a utility trailer that I built decades ago - it SEEMED to make sense at the time, but I overbuilt just about everything else on that trailer anyway.
It was simpler for me to hinge the tongue to get a tilting bed and that was easiest for me to do with a single beam tongue.

Anyway, the Aluma trailers we were talking about have "V" (or "A" according to your point of view) tongues.
I think the issue isn't with the material used, more with a need to select an adequate section in view of potential bending stresses.

Aluma claim to know of only one tongue failure resulting from WDH use and claim that it was with a customer reinforced tongue.
One could speculate whether it might have failed earlier if the customer had not reinforced it - I won't speculate, since I haven't seen it.

BTW, aluminum can and does bend, watch 53 ft aluminum flat bed trailers some time.
Empty they have a huge mount of crown (or arch) that is designed in.
Loaded they flex back and forth as they cross road level changes, the bumps don't ALL get absorbed by the suspension system (-:

The Fred · Dec 6, 2013

2008 F-150 Lariat Limited abysmal towing capacity!! - F150online Forums

Interesting information here.

Fred

jejeosborne · Dec 7, 2013

nikdfish said:
I finally talked with a technician at AlumaKLM about weight distribution. He indicated that WD is indeed not recommended for my Aluma model 7818. He said that according to their engineer, the tongue is not designed to accommodate the forces associated with WD hitches and that "they aren't really needed". I pointed out that with regard to the '08 Ford factory hitch it was indeed necessary if I wanted to take full advantage of the trailer's cargo capacity. I also pointed out that Alumas' incompatibility with WD was not articulated anywhere on their site or literature, that their dealers are also apparently not aware of the shortcoming & that the matter should be clearly spelled out for any potential buyer before they buy.

Kinda PO'd at the moment.

Nick

I would try to educate the manufacturer on why they are indeed needed. If they are in the trailer business i would have hoped they were familiar with the towing industry but obviously they are not. Could you take a picture of your tongue (trailer tongue that is) so that we could maybe understand why it is built heavy enough to accept the additional load? I would request them to cover the cost to reinforce the tongue or threaten to cause them more in lost sales through forums like this. I would also request they publish this downfall on their Webpage and printed materials to prevent future issues.
I would guess a majority of these 7000 lb trailers are being towed by 1/2 ton trucks which all have this requirement. As diamondpilot said, even 3/4 tons until recently have this requirement and I would want to use one regardless if I had 800 lbs on the tongue.