Cell Signal Boosters

   / Cell Signal Boosters #91  
The employer provided T-Mobile phone is prepaid... 1000 minutes for $100 and it was for the Hospital to be able to reach me after hours... which it works ok for... it is super frustrating to be asked why I don't pick up calls when they call me and I am in the building.

Most of my work calls are about a minute or less...

Went to T-Mobile and was told it could be my old phone and if so... I can changed it... but there is no way to try it... I've asked around the Hospital where everyone has a phone... Verizon, AT&T and Sprint... so far no T-Mobile users.

I use a prepaid in Austria that is unlocked... it a real handicap when trying to meet people and not being able to be reached so a phone is almost a necessity...

Did not know about the multi SIM option

Here is a unlocked smart phone:
Buy Microsoft Lumia 65 Dual SIM Review - Microsoft Store)

Multi SIM are great especially when you travel between countries. In ex: China Hong Kong, Singapore Malaysia, Malaysia Brunei, South Korea North Korea (Not). You can set it to Auto or select SIM manually.
 
   / Cell Signal Boosters #92  
Was able to activate the iPhone SE on the Verizon network yesterday, and so far 4G LTE is a no show, quite contrary to the Verizon coverage map and assurances from their sales staff. The best I've managed is -93 db inside the house, later falling to -118 db. Not much difference outside the house, even though the Wilson antenna/amplifier shows no sign of overload. To say I'm disappointed would be putting it mildly.

And just to add insult to injury, I had to power cycle the satellite modem this morning to even get on the Internet.

RedNeckGeek, is it possible the -93db to -118db you see is due to the phone switching from 3G to LTE? Here is a link to an article noting the difference:

Industrial Networking Solutions Tips and Tricks: Making Sense of Signal Strength/Signal Quality Readings for Cellular Modems

I saw another article explaining the reason for the difference but can't find it now.

As others have noted, there can be large differences in devices. My Samsung Galaxy Note 3 is far more capable than my wife's Galaxy S3 at our fringe-signal location. The Note 3 is larger than the S3 so I suppose it has a larger antenna. I recently read some articles where users were very unhappy with poor reception with the latest Samsung S# and Note # phones (can't recall the number they are up to). Some people thought it might improve with future firmware updates.
 
   / Cell Signal Boosters #93  
Does everyone that cares, have a good handle on the concepts of 0dbm and how the power values slide up and down this scale? Or do I need to attempt to cover this in one of my famous lectures?:) (be careful for what you wish for):)
 
   / Cell Signal Boosters #94  
RedNeckGeek, is it possible the -93db to -118db you see is due to the phone switching from 3G to LTE? Here is a link to an article noting the difference:

Industrial Networking Solutions Tips and Tricks: Making Sense of Signal Strength/Signal Quality Readings for Cellular Modems

I saw another article explaining the reason for the difference but can't find it now.

kco, thanks for posting that link! :thumbsup: The phone is supposed to show "4G LTE" in the upper left corner of the screen when it's on that network, but since the phone has never been away from home (just activated it Monday), I haven't seen it. But I put the phone into test mode by dialing *3001#12345#* and got RSRP and RSRQ measurements that confirm that there is very bad or no 4G LTE service here. At least now the problem is better quantified, and thanks to the article I have a better feeling for what numbers are meaningful and what ones aren't (the test mode puts out a LOT of info).

If you do happen across that other article, I'd be very interested in reading it. Thanks again!
 
   / Cell Signal Boosters #95  
Does everyone that cares, have a good handle on the concepts of 0dbm and how the power values slide up and down this scale? Or do I need to attempt to cover this in one of my famous lectures?:) (be careful for what you wish for):)

No and Yes!

Sometimes I regret getting what I wish for, but not often enough to prevent me from asking again. :laughing:

Thanks for your attempts to enlighten us curmudgeons! :laughing: But in reality all you're doing is making it even clearer how poorly the tech support folks in the help centers know their field. Now, however, it's a lot easier to tell when the BS starts so we can hang up and try again...:confused2:
 
   / Cell Signal Boosters #96  
Ok lets talk a little about using the Decibel as it pertains to Radio Frequency energy power measurements. We use it for audio (sound) measurements too, but I will try to make this logical RF power both from transmitters and as it pertains to received signal strengths in our radio receivers.

The decibel scale is a logarithmic scale. It would be helpful of you could remember some some simple reference points. If we double our RF (Radio Frequency energy) power like say going from 1 watt of power to 2 watts of power we have increased our power by 3db. It we quadruple our power, like going from 1 watt to 4 watts we have increased power by 6db. If we multiple our power by x10 we have increased our power 10 db. so a 1 watt starting power and we go to 10 watts, that is 10db of gain, and if we go from 10 watts to 100 watts that is another 10db of gain, and it follows that if we go from 1 watt to 100 watts we have a 20db of gain.. If we can just remember these things. we can calculate most things pretty close in our heads.

So now for some examples. Stay with me here. If we say that an amplifier has 23 db of gain, in other words we stick a certain power, lets say 1 watt of power on its input port, how much power will come out of the output port?. We know from the above statements, that the 20 db is multiplipling by 10 and them by 10 again and then the 3 db is a doubling of power. So 1 watt x 10 =10 watts and x10 again =100 watts and then a doubling that power for the 3db is now 200 watts coming out of this amplifier. I hope this made some sense.

Now these ways of calculating power work for antennas that have gain or loss, and for coax cable that only has loss, and for free space path loss and loss in air path's.

OK lets look at some examples of loss in coaxial cable. A given length of coaxial cable often rated in 100 foot lengths, may have a loss lets say of 3 db per hundred for a given frequency. Now remember as the frequency of the RF energy goes up so does the loss per hundred foot.
So if the above coax has 3 db of loss per hundred foot and we stick 10 watts of power in one end of it how much can we expect to get out at the far end into the load? We can expect a halving of the power so we could expect 5 watts to come out of the far end of the coax. The remaining 5 watts are lost in heat energy inside the coax. Now for those of you just chomping at the bit to talk about conjugate impedance matching and reflection mechanics... remember this is a simple discussion of the db scale and power measurement, and we have a ways to go to get there.

So on that 10 watt transmitter and that 3db of loss piece of coax, lets now include hooking up the far end of that coax to an antenna with 10db of forward gain. This might typically be a yagi type of antenna. How much Effective radiated power would we expect coming off of that yagi antenna in the forward direction it is pointed in? So 5 watts going into the antenna x 10db of antenna gain yeilds a 50 watt Effective radiated power coming off of the end of the yagi.. so far so good?

Now lets talk a little bit about receivers. Receivers deal with very small amounts of RF energy. We can set a baseline of the Milliwatt which if you know your prefix is a milliwatt is 1/1000 of a watt of power. And lets set that 1/1000 of a watt or the milliwatt as the 0db reference level as 0dbm. So 0db as referenced to a milliwatt of power. NOW that would be one heck of a strong signal in the input of a receiver, but we need to set a reference somewhere, and this is where we did it. Our typical signal strengths are much much much less than a milliwatt or 0dbm so we normally talk about negative numbers here.

So a signal strength of -10dbm is 1/10 of a 0dbm level. So if a milliwatt is 0dbm, what is a microwatt? Well a microwatt (again we are using those scientific notation prefixis) is 1 millionth of a watt or 1/1,000,000 of a watt or another way of saying it is 1/1000 of a milliwatt. So if we start at the 0dbm and divide by 10 then divide by 10 then divide by 10 we come to -30dbm is a microwatt. So figuring out these super small divisions is getting tedious so we usually just refer to a -dbm number to express these signal levels.

A fairly good receiver would be able to detect and process signals at a -120dbm level. Some may do better, some less. There are many factors that contribute to this including the ambient noise floor in the area you are operating the receiver in and so forth.

Lets now try a system gain/loss scenario from a cell tower to the inside of your radio(phone) in your hand.

Lets make some assumptions. Transmitter power of cell tower 100 milliwatts, Coax loss 3db Total, Transmit antenna gain 13db, Path distance 10 miles, reciever antenna gain 0db, no coax loss inside the receiver. What is the signal level in dbm in our receiver?

Ok lets start by converting all units to dbm. so 100 milliwatt transmitter is +20dbm, the coax loss is 3db so we have 17dbm now into the antenna but we have 13 db gain from the antenna so we squirt out the antenna at +30dbm. Now we go to the path loss calculator and see that the path loss at our 1.9Ghz frequecny for our 10 miles is about 112 db. And so +30dbm-112db = -82dbm of signal into our radio receiver.

This is a pretty decent signal and as much as 40db over the possible noise floor. Of course that would depend on your specific noise floor.

I hope this rambling dissertation helped a bit in understanding the db scale and how we figure loss and gain in systems.
 
   / Cell Signal Boosters #97  
Oh, by the way, if you took the time to read my last rambling "book" I must in all fairness point out I have no credentials or qualifications to discuss these concepts other than an Amateur Radio License.. Some people call us "hams":) But I did stay at a Holiday Inn once.
 
   / Cell Signal Boosters #98  
Anyone have experience with a cell phone signal booster? The cell phone reception at my cabin (Verizon) has gotten worse over the last 5 years. Texts arrive hours late. Calls dropped. Internet access almost zero. We can go outside about 20 feet from the cabin and get good enough reception.

So I'm looking at these folks:

Cell Phone Signal Boosters | Wilson Amplifiers

Just wondering if anyone else has had good/bad experience with this type of device. I understand that if there is "No Service" that a signal booster won't help.

Edit: A "booster" that uses the internet will not work for me. The cabin has no cable, no phone lines, no satellite service, etc.


I used Wilson Amplifiers to design and build a cell phone booster system for a bank headquarters in Virginia, that was located in a rural area. IT worked like a champ. IT was expensive, but I was doing an commercial entire building, 2 stories, with data center. I don't have any experience with their smaller solutions. That was 8-9 years ago. I imagine the devices have gotten better. I will be doing the same thing when I build my house this year.
 
   / Cell Signal Boosters #99  
We installed the Verizon signal booster in our house, hoping to go wireless home phone.

Wasted my money. Anyone interested in the Samsung booster for a fair price? The stickers are still on it. 😕

Sent from my iPhone 2.0 using TractorByNet
 
   / Cell Signal Boosters
  • Thread Starter
#100  
I hope this rambling dissertation helped a bit in understanding the db scale and how we figure loss and gain in systems.

I understood it while reading it but could not explain it to anyone. Here is my math-idiot practical understanding: our cell phone reception is measured in negative dB. A great signal would be around -60 dB. No signal would be around -115. But, because it is logarithmic, an improvement from, say, -100 dB to -75 dB is a much greater improvement that 25%. Also, the longer the coax I use to set up my signal booster the greater the dB loss will be.

Oh, and I have booked a room at the Holiday Inn for tonight.
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

INGERSOLL RAND 100KW GENERATOR (A50854)
INGERSOLL RAND...
2017 HINO BOX TRUCK (A51222)
2017 HINO BOX...
2018 Bobcat T590 Compact Track Loader Skid Steer (A50322)
2018 Bobcat T590...
2009 MACK CXU613 DAYCAB (A50854)
2009 MACK CXU613...
2015 Jeep Compass AWD SUV (A50324)
2015 Jeep Compass...
VOLVO L45G WHEEL LOADER (A51242)
VOLVO L45G WHEEL...
 
Top