Chain Saw Advice

CurlyDave · Mar 8, 2006

I agree on the Stabil.

If you get the two-stroke oil it has fuel stabilizer in it already, but adding a dose of Stabil makes it last a good long time.

I have both small two-stroke and small 4-stroke engines in lawnmowers, pressure washers, generators, etc. For 4-stroke I add a double dose of Stabil, for 2-stoke, the special purpose dyed oil and then a single dose of Stabil.

When gas was 50 cents Stabil seemed expensive. Now that gas is $2.50, $10.00 worth of Stabil treats 80 gallons, and it doesn't seem so bad.

osprey · Mar 8, 2006

My words were never meant to start an argument 

No argument here,that was not even remotely on my mind. I likewise enjoy talking and sharing experiences here on this particular thread and forum in general. I enjoyed the conversation. I never ever heard of "charring" the ends of the posts,that will be something I will tell my farming friends back here in the Ohio Valley area.

Thanks for the discussion. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

BarryinMN · Mar 8, 2006

I was at a sawmill a couple of years ago and watched logging trucks (Semi's) pull in and be off loaded with a huge payloader grapple thing. The sawmill wanted 8" logs 8' straight & long to fit in the debarker and other production machinery without jamming.

$500 per load to the logger who left with a check.

The sawmill sorted the raw stock and separated board grade hardwoods for a sibling furniture making operation. Other logs outside the size spec went into a 40 acre inventory.

This mill focused on hardwood pallet parts and pallet manufacturing. Their primary goal was xxx board feet per hour production.

To me the interesting points were that the logger was not particularly interested in the type of wood on the truck and the sawmill wanted continuous production and would take furniture grade logs without a second thought to keep the beast fed.

The $140 cord wood supplier said he would come over with his splitter and split for free some Birch my little 15 ton splitter stalled out on. This house has dual fuel forced air wood/fuel oil furnace.

Next time around a corn burner and propane or electric dual fuel might be the ticket.

Anyway back on chainsaws I use 3 Jonsruds around the Farm: a 16" 40cc class and a pair of 65cc that are scary fast.

John_Mc · Mar 11, 2006

CurlyDave -

You sound like someone who has taken the time to think out their approach to their land and what they want to accomplish on it. That's an important step that many folks overlook. I'm sorry you suffered an attack here on this board, especially since it seems someone was jumping to unfounded conclusions. From your posts, you strike me as someone who is concerned with your land and with "doing it right". Good luck to you and don't forget to take the time to enjoy the process.

On the chainsaw issue: Here in Vermont, most of the people I've seen who spend much time in the woods with a chainsaw seem to settle on one of the following brands: Husqvarna, Jonsered, or Stihl. There are probably other good ones, but that's what seems to hold up well for folks around here. Each of them make a variety of levels of saws in any one size range. I'd advise taking a step up from the entry-level, homeowner end of the range. They are still good saws (I don't think any of these three make junk), but the higher end ones have some better features (including better vibration damping) and tend to be more durable and more repairable.

I think you are on the right track with a 16" bar. Longer bars are more fatiguing, and can be awkward in tight spaces or when limbing. As someone else noted, you can still get down more tree than you are apt to want to handle with a 16" bar. I would also recommend some thought on engine size. 50cc engines are a good match for a 16" bar, especially when paired with a .320" pitch chain. You can go smaller in engine and save a few ounces, but in my experience the ounce saved in this particualr size range don't make up enough for the power lost.

If you don't mind my drifting into another topic: There are much safer ways of dropping a tree than pulling it over with your tractor. Not to say you should never do that, but that should be one of the last tools you reach for, not the first thing you try. It's really worth getting some good training in chainsaw use and maintenance. Helpful tips from a friend can be nice, but an organized training workshop is well worth the effort. One of the better ones I've seen is Soren Erikson's Game of Logging I've been through 3 of their four levels of chainsaw training and found each of them highly worthwhile. They cover precision directional felling, safety (in use of the chainsaw and in planning your cut), basic maintenance, and dropping "difficult" trees with back or side lean, amoung other topics.

I had little experience with a chainsaw. I sought out advice from experienced friends (even one who was a logger). I finally decided that I knew just enough to kill or maim someone (probably myself), and that I wanted to be around to see my kids grow up, and have use of all my limbs while I did so. As you can probably tell, the training made quite an impact on me.

I didn't see much on their website about organizations offering the training out in your neck of the woods, but it migh tbe worth touching base with them to check. At the very least, they might be able to recommend a similar organization in your area. I also know that some of their trainers have traveled to other states on occasion to offer training.

John Mc

markct · Mar 12, 2006

( I am thinking that it will be a lot safer to notch and backcut most trees only to the point where I can pull them over with the tractor & a 45 foot 3/8" chain. What do you folks think? )

i think ya will be in for a rude awakening the first tree ya pull over with that 45 ft chain, most trees are alot taller than ya would think, i just helped a friend cut down a couple trees saturday that were over 70 ft tall when we measuered them on the ground. they were very close to a his house and leaning towards it, thats why we wanted them outa there since they wernt very healthy, we notched them then put some tension on them with about 150 ft of cable and a snatch block then did the final cut from the backside and everyone went exactly where we wanted it to. on thing to note tho is that we were pulling with my 100 hp 11,000 lbs for tractor, so we had a pretty good advantage on the tree, with a 3000lbs tractor the tree might have been able to overcome the tractor and send it backwards very fast, i saw the aftermath of a for 8N that had that happen, it wasnt pretty

tenacrewoods · Mar 12, 2006

Hello! CurlyDave
I spent about a year (last year) looking at chainsaws,lots of info at www.arborist.lawnsite.com Anyway I alway used the cheap boxstore $100 saw so this time I decided to buy one to last. I always heard Stihl was the best and that Husqvarna and Jonsered was a close second but Husky is about $100
or more cheaper for the same size & quality saw. Any of these in the lower priced saw has a high carbon (plastic)
cylinder sleeve,even the $200-250 Stihls.
I chose a Husqvarna 353 that I got for $289, the same in the others would have been $450 or more. there is a Husky 350
that is a really great saw, it still has the (plastic) cylinder but has a metal sleeve,I think around $239 & up. On the site
I mentioned above its 50/50 split but up north I think there were more Husky's then Stihls being used. I really liked the Stihl but honestly couldn't afford it and now that I own 3 Huskys I wouldn't buy any other new saw. I do own 11 saws,
5 Homelites,2 Macs & 1 PoulanPro 4820AVHD & the 3 husky's.
The 353 can use a 16" 18"or 20" the 350 can use a 16" 18"
0r 20" but the 350 is pushing it w/20" You can look at the 350
at Lowes to get a feel for the Husky,both saws weigh about
the same about 3.3 HP and will last forever if maintained right.
If you want to PM or email me I'll give you more site to look at all these saws. Good Luck!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

turnkey4099 · Mar 13, 2006

There is a problem with using a bull rope/chain/cable to guide the tree. Once it begins to fall, all strain on the chain disappears, the tree falls faster than you can keep up. Best you can do is keep it from going the wrong way but forget any idea of guiding it on the way down.

I have resorted to hanging 5 gallon buckets of water in the middle of the cable. That helps but not nearly as much as I had hoped.

Harry K

1948berg · Mar 13, 2006

A safe way is to make a felling jack, this one pushes with the force of one ton, or to use a special lifting tong as shown on the pic.

http://www.anton.no/images/ARBORIST/stalpen2_thumb.jpg
http://www.anton.no/images/ARBORIST/tannstang_thumb.jpg
http://www.anton.no/images/ARBORIST/FELLESAK.JPG
http://www.anton.no/images/ARBORIST/FELLESA1_thumb.jpg
http://www.anton.no/

SnoFalls · Mar 13, 2006

My chain saw experiences ...

well, I've bought 3 over the last 10 years. All 16", all "poulan" variants (wild thing, etc). I get the cheapos at costco (or whatever is a local discount box), and pay about $80-$100 each *new*. Sometimes I'll pick up a spare chain for one, or when garage sailin find the same thing with chain and bar for $5. I now have 5 bars, 8 chains, and 2 running powerheads. I take the bucket (5 or so) of dull chains down once a year to be sharpened ($20 aint worth my time to bother sharpening 5-6 chains).

With the cheapo price, and the fact all bars/chains interchange, I never cut with a dull chain, always have a bar and chain to cut free if needed, and always have a saw that'll start with 3 pulls.

In ten years I've probably spent $400 for my "collection", so $40 a year ...

That being said, I could use a 24" saw on occasions, so I expect I'll pick up a used stihl (44 class?) soon ...

CT_Tree_Guy · Mar 13, 2006

There is a problem with using a bull rope/chain/cable to guide the tree. Once it begins to fall, all strain on the chain disappears, the tree falls faster than you can keep up. Best you can do is keep it from going the wrong way but forget any idea of guiding it on the way down. 

I'd just like to offer my view that it is a properly executed hinge that controls the direction of fall. Again, a good rule of thumb is to have the hinge be about 10% of the diameter of the tree, and the notch cut about 1/4 of the diameter.

Some species hinge better than others, and will therefore allow you to control greater and greater amounts of side lean. Hickory hinges extremely well, with most of the other hardwoods close behind; oak, maple, birch, beech and ash, maybe in about that order. Woods like pine, spruce, hemlock, poplar and willow don't hinge as well, but will still control the tree quite well in cases of back-lean, and to a lesser extent, side-lean.

It is astonishing how well a hinge in a hickory or oak will hold; depending on the amount of side-lean, you can often pull these trees over at up to 90 degrees from their "natural" lean. It is common and advisable to leave the hinge slightly thicker, maybe 15% of the diameter, on the part of the hinge that will be subject to tension forces as the tree is being pulled over (the part of the hinge "away" from the lean).

Of course, if there's a place for the tree to land, almost any tree can be pulled over 180 degrees from its natural angle of lean. The better the species hinges, the more lean can be overcome by pulling directly opposite it; probably as much as 40 degrees. If a tree cannot be felled in the direction of its natural lean, it's always best if you can pull it in the exact opposite direction from its natural lean; but again, a properly executed hinge (in a healthy tree) will do an amazing job of controlling the direction of fall. Experience will tell you when you're asking too much of a hinge.

As always, if you're not pretty darn sure how the hinge will behave, don't attempt the job. And be very aware of the soundness of the tree. Rotted trees do not hinge well AT ALL.

John