Chain top link

[techwrtr2]

On the subject of chain top links and their safety, I think it important to remember that when operating a machine like a CUT et, the ultimate burden of safety is on the operator. Even the most well designed equipment will "turn on you" if you aren't aware and are careless when operating it. Similiarly, equipment that will scare away some operators will be operated for many years without incident by operators who are aware of the risks and keep their weather eye on the equipment at all times.

Even without a chain toplink, I always keep close attention paid to whatever implement I have hanging back there. Either because I'm tring to avoid having the front of the mower dig in (ground here is really bad and it's nearly impossible to avoid totaly) or I want my grading work to go well.

It is up to the operator to determine whether his setup is appropriate for the task he's about to perform. That chain toplink may work well when doing some light road grading but it may also be more likely to cause issues when breaking up hard packed earth. The operator has to make that decision and the operator is responsible for the success or failure of his choice.

My .02.

 

[texasjohn]

Just to be clear, I use a hydraulic (fixed) top link for all implements except the box blade. I also use it with the box blade when grading hard packed road and with chisel points engaged.

Flexible "hydralink" is used to spread out newly applied and loose road base dropped by my dump trailer.

 

[Gordon Gould]

I feel that I owe Ken Sweet an apology for my arrogance and an
explanation for my thinking.

Imagine you are bush hogging up a very steep hill when the hog
gets hung up on a stump. As you continue to apply power the
front end of the tractor rotates upwards causing the rear lift arms
to retract towards their upper position. When the lift arms reach
their upper stops the top link will start to resist further rotation.
Imagine that the hill is of such a steepness that the top link starts
to resist just as the tractor reaches Top Dead Center. Now look at
the lever system you have. The rear axle acts as the fulcrum and
center of rotation. At the far end of the lever you have the weight
of the tractor and FEL poised several feet vertically above the axle
at the tractors center of gravity. Then you have the top link, splayed
out at an angle. It is braced against the ground at one end and the
other end is attached to the tractor (lever) only inches above the
horizontal plane of the axle (fulcrum). This gives tremendous
mechanical advantage to the weight of the tractor and its
rotational momentum against the top link. The top link can offer
very little resistance before it fails. It and it's short lever arm
are no match against the tractor and it's long lever arm.

Now, if the top link gets bent before the tractor reaches TDC, it
will offer even less resistance in arresting rotation as it is weaker.

In addition top links seem to bend relatively easily. Many of us have
bent them. Often people say that they do not know how or when
they got bent. This tells us something.

This is why I belive that operating with a chain top link is not
significantly more dangerous than using a fixed link. And why
a top link probably does not prevent a flipped tractor.

If you go where you shouldn't you'll get in trouble either way.

gg

 

[sweettractors]

No apology needed. I don't know much about all the engineering and fulcrum points, and weight distribution, etc, However, I know about "Everyday in the field experience" on many different brands of tractors and how they perform on my hilly 300+ acres. BTW, I know of no tractor manufacturers that offer a chain in place of a toplink when a new tractor is sold. I don't even know of any that sell a new tractor with a hydraulic toplink as standard equipment. I am not sure about this and I stand to be corrected. Ken Sweet

 

[CharlieS]

There is some validity to both sides of this discussion, but as in many things, some common sense needs to be applied in all cases.
I can't think of any cirucumstances that i'd use a flexible (chain or cable) top link on any sort of ground engagement type impliment, by reason of the basic design 3 point mounted tools.
My reasoning is this: by design when you sink a tool in the ground, force is pushing against the front of that implement pushing on the front, and a flex top link will allow rotational force to pivot the implement on the mounting pins, whereas a rigid toplink actually provides a solid resistance to this tipping force against rotation. At the least allowing the back of an implement to float, there is the possibility of uneven depth engagement of the rear portion of a tool because of this floating attitude. There is no clear cut answer, because of the varied tool designs, weight balance factors etc.
However, tools such as a bush hog, that due to the weight leverage factor on the back of the tool, a flexing top link does have some advantages on uneven ground.
Refering to Ken Sweet's post about some front wheel lift on a steep hillside, and realizing there is a point of diminishing returns where at some angle, dependant on many factors, this could happen with any tractor, its quite possible for this to happen because of an improperly weighted front end. Particularly with a smaller lighter tractor and the leverage factor applied by a long heavy implement attached.
with a long enough lever and a fulcrum anything can be moved but that movement may not always be the desired action.

 

[roger 4400]

Hello Gordon,
Can you tell me the manufacturer and model of the logging choker and cable slider and what size chain you are using? I have an upcoming need for that setup. Thanks, Jerry.

Hi. i have those chooker hooks with my Farmi logging winch, there are standard with the winch. So any Farmi distributor can order some to you or have those chookers in stock. Roger

 

[RalphVa]

I just bought some chain and some quick connect ends at Tractor Supply. One of the quick connects recently bent a bit on me. TSC no longer had them. Had to buy a U shaped one with a screw bolt to attach it to the top link point at the tractor with the "U" and the chain to the screw bolt.

I really wonder why we bother with chains at all. Only problem I'd have is if I wanted to back out over the creek bank. The chain keeps the bush hog frame from dropping into the creek. However, in most cases, I only back up enough to lose the trail wheel over the precipice. The frame of the "hog" keeps it from going further.

What good is the chain? After bending my nice quick connect gizmo, I'm wondering. Surely doesn't keep the "hog" from leaping up at the tractor if something makes it want to do so.

Ralph

 

[RoyJackson]

I feel that I owe Ken Sweet an apology for my arrogance and an explanation for my thinking.

Imagine you are bush hogging up a very steep hill...

READ THE POST

Why would you think the draft links would have to raise at all? The implement pins could easily just rotate about the "eyeball" in the draft links.

Frankly, I think you're way overengineering to justify your position on the topic.
Implements can jump...reckon we've all seen that (and I'd wager most of the jumping were by rotary cutters, but that a guess). In an upslope or down slope, that jump could be enough to rotate the implement about those draft links to hit the back of your tractor. The implement drive shaft has, by this time, wreaked your tractor's PTO (but probably reduced enough momentum to prevent injury or too much damage to your tractor).

However, for you gents who use a chain toplink, knowing there's a danger..more power to you and be safe.

 

[Gordon Gould]

I agree with you Roy and there are many other reasons a stiff top link is good. My post is all about the idea that a top link will keep you from going over backwards. I dont beleive it can.

 

[gauthier]

Ralph,you don't need any top link,chain or solid,they make pull brush hogs[not three point],but chain lets me raise it a little to look under,and like you said it keeps back from dropping and drive shaft coming apart. But one thing it don't do is keep back from coming up.

 

[MESSMAKER]

I put a chain on the top link of my cutter today. It took me about 3 tries to get the length right, but was pretty satisfied after that. I did have the back of the cutter flip up a foot or so when the front hit something solid. i don't think I like it,but I am going to give it a few more days.

 

[RFB]

When I asked the question it was definitely for use in the context of employing a road grader similar to the one in the photo. I was too soon old and too late smart when I bought my tractor without rear hydros, and so for now am stuck with turn-buckle type top links. With my Road Boss the back end wants to rise and cause unequal force distribution (front blade then does the lion's share of the work). I think that a "soft" top link may allow the grader to ride flat. I have no intention of using chain for pto powered attachments.

 

[Gordon Gould]

I would guess that in your case a "soft" top link would make your problem worse.
The purpose of the top link is to adjust and hold the plane of the grader. If you want
to hold the back end down try this: with the tractor level and on a hard surface, and lift arms all the way down, lengthen your top link until you see the front of the grader just start to come up off the ground. Then start grading in the normal way and make further adjustments from there if necessary.
On my grader the back end is quite heavy this helps, but I find the "soft" top link works best after the road surface has been losened or in new gravel.

 

[kencunningham]

Running the chain thru a short piece of pipe should arrest any deadly jumps, hopefully.

 

[Chilly807]

If it's flexibility in the top link you're looking for, one way to get it without using chain is to use something like Land Pride does on their 18-series rotary cutters.

There is a short U-shaped piece of steel that goes between the top link and the top of the mower frame. It allows the "link" between the tractor and the mower to sag or flex over high spots in terrain. I've not tried seeing how high it will allow the mower to lift, it may be no better than chain in that respect.

Sean

 

[sweettractors]

If it's flexibility in the top link you're looking for, one way to get it without using chain is to use something like Land Pride does on their 18-series rotary cutters.

There is a short U-shaped piece of steel that goes between the top link and the top of the mower frame. It allows the "link" between the tractor and the mower to sag or flex over high spots in terrain. I've not tried seeing how high it will allow the mower to lift, it may be no better than chain in that respect.

Sean

The brand Rotary Cutter we sell has that feature as well. Shown below Hawkline 5 ft $895. Ken Sweet

 

[Gordon Gould]

RFB
An additional thought: If you want to know what it would be like with a "soft" top link just remove your top link all together so you have nothing up there.
Go very slow and be careful. From your discription you will probably find that it rolls forward even more,
The only thing the chain does for you is it allows you to pick it up off the ground.

 

[gauthier]

My 10 year old king kutter had the same U shaped thing,but it didn't work to my liking,chain was the best for me.

So you tried a chain and than you said you ran up on something solid?? why?? After reading all these posts,?? Raise front up about 6 inches,make rear wheel where cutter is about level,than don't run up on any thing solid again....other wise,put solid top link back on it.[just some suggestions]

 

[MESSMAKER]

Broke the rear wheel assembly and vibrated a bolt out of the 3 point frame today on the second day with a chain. I can't say it is directly connected but it is starting to make me wonder.

 

[RalphVa]

OK. Guess the main use of the chain is to keep the shaft from sliding apart.

I really like having the bush hog trail behind on its wheel all the time. With the top link on instead of a chain, the thing goes bang bang bang all the time on my uneven terrain. Also, I worry about having that heavy thing hanging back there if the rear tires slip (as they did one day) going down hill. That weight could easily cause the whole rear end to slide around easily. If the downhill tire hit something, over it goes.

Ralph