Chains Chains on front tires only VS. rear only

[GlennaR]

Thanks, good to know this.

Suspect the chance of getting a second hand setO tires n wheels for my Kub are slim so guess chains it must be. However never considered the clearance, better take a good look C first......

 

[Oldpath05]

I looked up the rules on reviving 6 year old threads, and Rule No. 1 says as long someone has been a member longer then 6 years, its a good thing, but to reopen, he/she must have a tractor, store bought or home made, then it's fine, ethical, and politically correct.

But I found there could be a slight problem with a 6 year old thread, the links to putting studs/buying in the front tires don't work, at least not for me, and I read through it all, where's the rule on links not working hummmmmmm

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Personally, I wouldn't just chain up the front tires, in fact, I won't chain up the front tires on any of my tractors... I would just run chains on the rears, if it was me.

SR

 

[RickB]

Chains on the rear only for me. But my tractor is 2WD.:duh:

Seriously, I try to dissuade my customers from chaining front tires, especially without chaining the rears.

 

[PILOON]

Seriously, I try to dissuade my customers from chaining front tires, especially without chaining the rears.

Duh'
Just look at the component sizes, i.e. axles, joints etc and all driven by same HP.
Even worst is that same torque reduced to the smaller diameter wheel.

 

[RickB]

Duh'
Just look at the component sizes, i.e. axles, joints etc and all driven by same HP.
Even worst is that same torque reduced to the smaller diameter wheel.

That's it. But a surprising percentage of owners don't want to hear it. It's all good till a pinion shaft shears or a ring gear sheds a tooth. Then it gets ugly fast.

 

[Billrog]

I disagree with the opinions expressed here from personal experience. This is the first winter I haven't kept 3 or 4 miles of mt. trails open with chains on the front wheels of my small tractor in 23 yrs. . The universals and differential are original and still solid. Smaller wheels take less power to turn is the reason for smaller axles and dif. The average home owner would never put the stress any where near what I have on their tractor with chains on the front. If there was room I may have put chains on the back wheels as well.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Yup, it works pretty good UNTIL it doesn't!

Just something to think about... I saw a guy with a B series Kubota that chipped the pinion gear in the front end. The PARTS were over $1,000 bucks, then there's labor too!!

I wouldn't want that bill, NO matter how it happened!

SR

 

[RickB]

I disagree with the opinions expressed here from personal experience. This is the first winter I haven't kept 3 or 4 miles of mt. trails open with chains on the front wheels of my small tractor in 23 yrs. . The universals and differential are original and still solid. Smaller wheels take less power to turn is the reason for smaller axles and dif. The average home owner would never put the stress any where near what I have on their tractor with chains on the front. If there was room I may have put chains on the back wheels as well. View attachment 410623
View attachment 410624
View attachment 410625

Here's where your logic is flawed: Catastrophic failures linked to front chain use are not cumulative, they typically result from instant shock loading from specific events. A chain on a spinning tire grabbing a frozen lump of dirt and instantly re-establishing traction, for instance. You have enjoyed good luck, and perhaps you are a very careful operator, but I've seen guys cry about repair cost after boasting that chains on front wheels was no problem for them.

 

[Agvg]

A normal front axle on a tractor have reduction gear at the wheels to reduce loads on the rest of the axle, it must be design to take a lot of abuse because a lot of situations will make much of the torque of the engine out only on the front, an example are backing very heavy trailers up very steep hills.
Its very common to only use front chains and on commercial grade tractors its not a problem, but as always if the the driver are an idiot everything can and will give in.

 

[PILOON]

Talking of personal experience, been there.

I had to replace the front crown and pinion on my 20 hp tractor.
Parts alone were quoted as high as $1400., that's when I joined TBN.
I eventually purchased the parts new for $450.

 

[woodchipper]

Ladder style ice chains in the front right right now on my UDT. No problem so far, even on my not so easy 3.1 Km hilly dirt road that I need to maintain year long if I want to get in or out of my property. This machine weighs about 12k pounds, with the rear snowblower mounted.
On my 5k pounds two wheel drive JD 710, I have a full set of ice chains, that will get me going just about anywhere. Love those chains.

 

[RickB]

A normal front axle on a tractor have reduction gear at the wheels to reduce loads on the rest of the axle, it must be design to take a lot of abuse because a lot of situations will make much of the torque of the engine out only on the front, an example are backing very heavy trailers up very steep hills.
Its very common to only use front chains and on commercial grade tractors its not a problem, but as always if the the driver are an idiot everything can and will give in.

Another member missing the point. Torque transmission and resistance to shock loading are not the same.

I'll sell the parts to anybody who wants to gamble.

 

[Agvg]

Its been done for decades in commercial snow clearing with tractors so its not a big issue.

 

[SPYDERLK]

A normal front axle on a tractor have reduction gear at the wheels to reduce loads on the rest of the axle, it must be design to take a lot of abuse because a lot of situations will make much of the torque of the engine out only on the front, an example are backing very heavy trailers up very steep hills.
Its very common to only use front chains and on commercial grade tractors its not a problem, but as always if the the driver are an idiot everything can and will give in.

Another member missing the point. Torque transmission and resistance to shock loading are not the same.

I'll sell the parts to anybody who wants to gamble.

I think these sum it up and that neither has missed the point: Use the traction that is there in snow, afforded by the chains. Dont spin the wheels beyond a crawl slip rate because chains will dig and if they snag on what they find that wheel will be stopping instantly under power.

 

[kco]

I think these sum it up and that neither has missed the point: Use the traction that is there in snow, afforded by the chains. Dont spin the wheels beyond a crawl slip rate because chains will dig and if they snag on what they find that wheel will be stopping instantly under power.

That's a good summary and good advice SPYDERLK. Spinning in snow is counter-productive. Smooth operation with no spinning is much more effective.

I have 5/16" 2-link ladders on the front with 3/8" DUO's on the rear. Having front chains makes it much easier to clear for my conditions where 50% is on fairly steep grades--I can clear uphill which would not always be the case with rear-only chains. I don't use the fronts for roading or long level stretches. But even when not in 4WD the front chains improve steering on packed snow or ice. When in 4WD it is easy to determine a speed to prevent shock-loading on the fronts.

As to the original question of rears OR fronts, I would go with rear chains. They are more effective than smaller front-only chains, and you completely eliminate the front shock load concern (which I don't think is that big a deal if you operate smoothly). If the heavy rear chains are left on for the entire winter the weight is not a problem for the one-time installation. It may be possible to ease the rough ride by modifying the chains. My DUO's were very rough and I significantly improved that by modifying them as shown in this thread:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/268885-duo-chains-planned-modifications.html

I also have a clearance problem (to the inside sidewall, the top is OK) but was able to work around it.

My front chains were originally large rear 4-link ladders. That supplied enough cross links to turn them into 2-link ladders for the fronts which, due to the better coverage area on the tire, makes for a smoother ride and less tendency to slip.

 

[Agvg]

If its steep chains on the front gives you brakes when driving on ice, chains at the rear often slides on the ice when the weight transfers over to the front when you are going down hill.

 

[Oldpath05]

So what would it take to make a L3400 size 4x4 tractor so it can handle chains on the front tires with no problem, does it really take something as big as a 540 JD skidder. By the looks of some of these threads, a lot of us are using these hayfield tractors in the woods, and we want a tractor strong enough to handle chains on front.

 

[Agvg]

I dont think there any problems, if they where so badly made that having good grip on the front will destroy the axel you would find this forum filled with complains on the subject. But the driver must have his brain turn on.

 

[Dead Horse]

i have a Hesston 90-100 DT and a Kubota 3710 HST.

Hesston front tires are same size as Kubota rear tires. So Yeah, I use the same set of chains on both tractors. The Hesston is an awfully big sunuvabiotch and when I am chained up, it is usually to pull some plow truck out of a deep ditch on a back woods road somewhere or to climb an icy road up the side of a mountain.

FWIW, I use to use the Kubota for driveway plowing duties, with a fixed position 6' snow plow. The drive is 1/2+ mile long and changes elevation 300' over its length. Without chains she got away from me on ice a couple times and or would not climb the icy road. I purchased a set of front chains because they were cheaper and a lot easier to install. I was generally careful about not shock loading the drive train, but was pretty sure plowing up hill was putting a lot of stress ONLY on the front drive train. After several years, maybe 5 or 6, a right front wheel bearing just completely came apart......

I replaced the bearing set and have not run the front chains on that tractor, but maybe 3 times in the last 6 years. I think if you are a careful operator you can get ways with doing it on flat ground............ in hindsight, pushing a plow, uphill on icy pavement with front chains only, was just NOT prudent.