Channel iron strength

[kennyd]

Bill,

Don't pull a dump trailer with a 3PH. When you raise the bed and the load shifts to behind the rear axle, there is nothing keeping your 3PH from lifting.

John

John you just screwed up my plan.Thank you. I hadn't thought about that. I will have to give this a little more thought.With the tandem set to the rear I wonder it it will raise the tongue?
Bill

A simple check-chain from the drawbar to the toplink connection at the hitch take care of that.

 

[jmc]

with the tandem set to the rear I wonder it it will raise the tongue?
Bill

Less lifting force but it might come up faster.

Maybe you could rig up a restraining chain that keeps the 3PH from lifting more than 4 inches or so above normal operating height, and is slack at lesser heights? You'd need a low attachment point for the chain, like maybe the drawbar, even if you had to extend it.

edit: oops, Kenny beat me to it.

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

Does anyone know where I can get the weight of different shapes of steel. Like channel or box tubing. The metal sites I have been on dont give weight for shipping just the cost.
Bill

 

[SPIKER]

contact you local steel delivery people they will have small notebook they can give you with all the basic steel sizes they carry with weights per foot and even engineering charts that will tell you strengths of the steel.

we buy from several places and all of them have similar booklets spiral bound things, but we buy pretty good quantity of steel per year.

I built a single axle dump trailer for off road use only (though it has been pulled several times down the road with slow moving sign on it.) I have had 3 yards of gravel in there and dumped it fine with the tractor 3 pt. I chain the 2pt just like posted back a page or so ago. I have forgotten this step once or twice and it is not good. it will hyper extend the 3 pt lift arms fast. I keep my home made 3pt ball hitch chained to the drawbar loop under the tractor now when ever I'm going to hook up a trailer...

This trailer below was built using 3x3x3/16 sq tube, 2x2x1/4" sq tube, and 2 or 3 sheets of 11awg steel hot rolled. i built it in a matter of 1 week with a little help getting a few items in-place. cost was 1 weeks worth of my work, I took 2 weeks vacation worked at the shop building this and worked the 2nd week for the steel & use of the shop. I painted it with TSC enamel and TSC hardener / additive added to it. this was built in I think aug 2002 and it has started to rust slightly mostly where the gravel has scratched the inner bed. I treated the steel with good quality metal prep conditioner which builds a phosphate coating to help paint adhere better... This summer project will be to clean off inner bed rust and re-paint using some smooth truck bed coating.

make the chain length so that you can raise the 3pt up to near max and then tighten up so it will not over travel this helps when dumping you can raise 3pt and raise 3pt and raise wagon bed.. I used a 4" x 20" cylinder that was free to me. use it single acting with the pressure port that is tied in parallel with my 3pt lift mech. (lift cylinder sees same pressure as dump wagon cylinder. common for many tractors and is primarily used to transport disks & dump wagons...


here some pics


once viewing in upper left click "view album" for more pics of this one I built.

Mark M




Mark

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

Spiker, how did you figure out where to mount the cyl. on the box. Trial and error or math.
Bill

 

[SPIKER]

Spiker, how did you figure out where to mount the cyl. on the box. Trial and error or math.
Bill

more or less trial and math error

Since I had the cylinder free I wanted to try & make it work. My hydraulics will give me only about 2250 psi (relieved set pressure) and they (my brand of tractor JINMA) can and do pop pumps when too much pressure is backed up I wanted to make sure I could get up the weight when the load was fully down. The cylinder stroke determined where I had to put it to get the angle I thought was good enough for a full dump with the materials I planned on using most of the time. I planned on sand/gravel with occasional dirt. dumping dirt needs about 48 to 50 degrees for it to dump out relatively well. (I found this info back on web when I was getting ready to build it and no longer have the links) a little searching should find it easily enough though.

I raised up the bed to get close to the angle I wanted and then loosely attached the rod end to underside of the bed. (by sliding the hyd cylinder closer to the pivot point and keeping the bottom of the cylinder close to the bottom of the lower frame.) I made up heavy plate brackets for the cylinder side. I swung the hyd cylinder in an arc up to the bed to see where it would attach the best and be low enough to still give me some push UP at the bottom of the stroke. I tack welded it there. I lowered the bed and checked for binding. The cylinder ended up almost flat with the bed fully down and rod fully retracted. I found this angle for the pressure was too great to lift a fully loaded bed of wet sand/gravel. I lowered the hyd cylinder down vertically to be under the frame and slide the cylinder upper rod end up more. which cost some of the angle at dump height. I tacked it all up good and tried it out and found it worked well with shop air sometimes needing a slight push to get it moving. So I welded it up figuring the high pressure would make it move just fine. it worked mostly as long as the thing it not stuffed completely full. I now put a 2x4 between bed and frame when lowering it to keep the retracted angle with more of a vertical push up. this also helps with slightly more angle to shed rain/water out of the bed when setting or when filling with wet material. It will now dump with full load of wet sand & gravel but has slightly more problems with the dirt if it is dirt very damp and sets/bounces much on the trip as it packs into the bed... and will need some digging every now and again to get all the dirt out if moisture is just right I have to dig about 1/3 of the dirt/clay out.

The cylinder is below the lower frame about 2.5" to make inserting the bolt/pin through easier I think I used 3/4" by 4" flat stock to make up the lower mount and they are welded flat/flush to the bottom of 2ea. 2x2x1/4 tubes that support the lower frame hyd cylinder running front to back. they are wide enough to have the cylinder between them and still support it well. the 6" long 4"x3/4" flat plates were butt welded flush to the inner edge of the 2x2x1/4" center tubes. I added small angle brackets under the tubes to keep these plates (flat bar) in plane/90 degrees to the bottom with the inner edge of the 3x3 tube.

Under the bed I did similar using 2x2x1/4" wall sq tube. and added some cross braces to support the inner floor. I think I used 1/2" plate on that end though I cant remember for sure there... (you can see in the un-painted pics the upper mount pretty well. it is 3/4 boxed up 1/2" or 3/8" flat bar I think it is 3" wide with holes punched through to hold upper pin.)


also note you can see there are reinforcing diamond shaped plates over the welds that attach the front trailer tong it was fully welded ground down and then added the plates as extra measure. also added 1/2" round rod/bar to the 2- 5/16" ball hitch to help add some reinforcing to that as well.

the pics are not all that detailed as I think they were shot in 480x640 res. digital camera back then which was pretty good digital camera back then...

If out need some measurements I can trey & remember to get a few next time I'm out to the farm.

The bed is made with formed double bent top edged and single bent & edge welded & plug welded to the frame. i reinforced the top bends along the sides and tailgate with 2x2/14awg sq tube to make sure the upper sides would not bow out and used 2x2x1/4" for vertical risers from the top frame back corners where the bed dumps through to make sure these didnt bow I reinforced the bottom with some plate inside the lower back square tube. I notched the floor out and welded directly to the under frame and welded back the inned sheet metal bed so nothing would leak/rust through there.
this was a fun project that I built using the 55 ton Iron worker and 220 ton 10' brake and 1/4x10' shear at work not to mention the welders and notchers eheheh..

Mark

P.S. Just added a couple more pics to the trailer gallery that were alreay on my PC from when it was built, I built this in July/Aug of 2003.

 

[jenkinsph]

Bill,

Have you considered building a 3 pt section harrow, landplane or other implement?

May make more sense than a small trailer, looks like one as small as you are contemplating could hold around 3 buckets full.

 

[JB4310]

The uncontrolled 3pt rise is a real concern, but can be taken care of with a limiter chain attach to extended draw bar.

When I dump the 5 ton, just before the load slides out there is a tremendous upward load on the hitch, but the chain controls it.

JB.

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

Spiker, thanks for the detailed info. I was thinking 45deg but 50 would probably be better. The dirt I have piled up will probably be fairly damp.


Steve, I am figureing it will hold 4-5 buckets with 2' sides. I didn't want any thing bigger or I would get a trailer like JB has.


JB thanks for the pics. Now I know how to hook the chain to limit the TPH lifting while dumping.
Bill

 

[Oldmax]

I have started one about two years ago but haven't finished yet. Is 5'X8' here is picture