Charging for handyman work

[JDgreen227]

I know a number of single women who own homes, condos, or mobile homes, and once in a while they ask if I can do handyman type work for them...things like replacing a faucet or over the range microwave, perhaps adding an outlet, or general "honey-do" work like yard cleanup and tree trimming. As a retired guy, my time is my own and I am happy to help them and never expect any payment for 2 or 3 hours of work.

However: I have a former work associate who was telling me about her 2 grand estimate to install a free standing 8X8 deck at her mobile home, I told her quote: "If you lived closer (she is 40 miles distant) I would be happy to do the job at a fair price" Unquote. She asked me to put together how much the materials would cost for a pressure wood treated deck with railings, lattice and stairs and I calculated about $650. She offered to pay me for time and mileage to do the job but for the life of me I have no idea of what to charge her, she is a good friend but I owe her nothing and don't want to sell myself short. I am thinking 35 cents per mile and $20 per hour while actually working and would give her top quality work for her twenty bucks an hour.

What do you guys think? I wouldn't be marking up the materials at all, unlike the contractor who gave her the 2 grand estimate.

 

[lockhaven]

caution JD around here that would be a crime, you must be a licensed and bonded contractor to change a light bulb. Maybe different where you are but check to be sure.

 

[bearhawk]

The hourly rate thing is always a pain for a project like this. I would figure what you think it would take for time, say 4 8 hour days, then add 25% (cause it always takes longer) thats 40 hours @ $25 per hour..

so $1,000 for labor and the cost of materials..

You could do a "not to exceed" price. charge by the hour, but not to exceed $1,000 or something like that. if you do get it done in 4 days, she saves money. If it takes you 6 days.. you make less..

$.35 is a fair charge for travel expenses .

 

[JDgreen227]

caution JD around here that would be a crime, you must be a licensed and bonded contractor to change a light bulb. Maybe different where you are but check to be sure.

Thanks for heads up, but she said the park where she resides is okay with do-it-yourself work....I would be sure she had written permission before starting. Yes, as a former carpenter I am well aware of the rules regarding local codes...they can be a huge PIB.

 

[Combustix]

I'd just flat fee it and call it good. Oh and she should have your favorite beverage on ice as well.

 

[smstonypoint]

Ditto on checking on any licensing and insurance requirements. Is a building permit required?

The 2012 IRS standard mileage rates for autos, vans, and pickups are 55.5 cents/mile for business use (estimated total cost = fixed + variable) and 23 cents for medical or moving use (estimated variable cost).

Keep in mind that you may need to file IRS forms C or C-EZ(self-employed income) and SE (self-employed FICA), and pay the appropriate taxes (if any).

Steve

PS. Is the $2,000 quote a "fair" price? Presumably the quote was provided by a full-time contractor. A "fair" price to the contractor allows the contractor to cover his total costs (variable + fixed) and earn a profit. You may have a different idea as to what is "fair."

 

[bigtiller]

I think you may be selling yourself short on the transportation charges. I have a 5 year old 4x4 Chevy and figure it costs me .45 per mile to drive it IF someone else pays for the gas. That .45 pays for depreciation, insurance P.M. and unwarranted repairs. After adding some for gas, I add another .20 per mile for my labor to do the driving, which figures out to about minimum wage. Depending on the price of gas, that comes up to about a dollar per mile, shop to shop.

 

[RDrancher]

I think you may be selling yourself short on the transportation charges. I have a 5 year old 4x4 Chevy and figure it costs me .45 per mile to drive it IF someone else pays for the gas. That .45 pays for depreciation, insurance P.M. and unwarranted repairs. After adding some for gas, I add another .20 per mile for my labor to do the driving, which figures out to about minimum wage. Depending on the price of gas, that comes up to about a dollar per mile, shop to shop.

Yep, I add a dollar per mile into all of my quotes.

 

[/pine]

I know a number of single women who own homes, condos, or mobile homes, and once in a while they ask if I can do handyman type work for them...things like replacing a faucet or over the range microwave, perhaps adding an outlet, or general "honey-do" work like yard cleanup and tree trimming. As a retired guy, my time is my own and I am happy to help them and never expect any payment for 2 or 3 hours of work.

However: I have a former work associate who was telling me about her 2 grand estimate to install a free standing 8X8 deck at her mobile home, I told her quote: "If you lived closer (she is 40 miles distant) I would be happy to do the job at a fair price" Unquote. She asked me to put together how much the materials would cost for a pressure wood treated deck with railings, lattice and stairs and I calculated about $650. She offered to pay me for time and mileage to do the job but for the life of me I have no idea of what to charge her, she is a good friend but I owe her nothing and don't want to sell myself short. I am thinking 35 cents per mile and $20 per hour while actually working and would give her top quality work for her twenty bucks an hour.

What do you guys think? I wouldn't be marking up the materials at all, unlike the contractor who gave her the 2 grand estimate.

just some passing thoughts...not specific to your cited instance...

What would be your actual cost?

Are you in "the business"...do you have insurance that would cover you on her property as a contractor (that is what you would be in the eyes of the law)...do you pay self employment taxes? what overhead do you have for such jobs? are you bonded?..what type of warranty would you offer?...just hypothetically...what if the material you supplied turned out to be faulty in one way or another (for any type of job)...would your insurance cover you?

There are legitimate reasons contractors price jobs the way they do...actual cost + overhead + profit margin

In many places just changing out an electrical outlet can get a non-licensed person a very hefty fine (tens of thousands of $'s)

What if while setting posts etc...your post hole digger busts into an unknown water/sewer line (possibly belonging to a neighboring property owner)...would your insurance cover you? and any liability for damage to neighboring properties?

 

[EddieWalker]

What you charge really depends on the level of experience, your skill at building the deck to your clients satisfaction and to code, as well as your commitment to coming back if their is a problem.

Two grand sounds pretty good to me. I wouldn't do it for less.

Eddie

 

[Pete Judd]

I Do some work for the older folks around hear as I have a full cab shop and a good rep, Do a lot for nothing, but the good will sometimes overwhelms you when the tomatoes and eggs start showing up on your door step. Sounds like a fair price, and as it is behind the house, and not connected around here no permits required. Just make sure that the deck meets code.

 

[LD1]

I know a number of single women who .................

......................and I am happy to help them and never expect any payment for 2 or 3 hours of work.

So.......Are you married

On a serious note, I kinda have to agree with EddieWalker and /Pine on this. $2k isnt too bad for someone IN the business.

Doing things yourself, (even if you pay yourself 20-25 an hour) is ALWAYS going to ge cheaper than a contractor.

Because...as they mention, insurance, bonded, permits, more overhead, they have to pay themselves, AND make a profit above all of that.

If you take your $650 in material, and figure it might take you 20 hours @ $20 per hour, thats over a grand their. (and NO that $20 isnt your profit. Thats just your payment). So already at $1k, add in the milage, insurance, permits, and a profit and it is easy to see why $2k isnt bad.

And again, as others mentino, what do you do if you hit and electric or water or phone line?? What do you do if she has a problem in a few months?? What happens if there IS a problem and the deck collapses and someone gets injured??

Doing something like this for others is totally different than if you were doing it for yourself. I have built a few decks for people I know (friends). Planning, buying material, and making money on the deal. But both times the arrangement has been....."I am helping YOU build the deck" because they are their, involved and activly help.

 

[smstonypoint]

Doing something like this for others is totally different than if you were doing it for yourself. I have built a few decks for people I know (friends). Planning, buying material, and making money on the deal. But both times the arrangement has been....."I am helping YOU build the deck" because they are their, involved and activly help.

This reminds me of a line I read over at JLC (with hypothetical numbers):

"My labor rates are $50/hour, $75/hour if you watch, and $100/hour if you try to help."

Steve

 

[Stick895]

Price depends on how good they look and how "friendly" they are!

 

[JDgreen227]

Price depends on how good they look and how "friendly" they are!

Guys, I am married and my wife knows each and every lady I do work for...and even if I were single, none of them would appeal to me. With that said, the lady who wants me to build the deck is worried about being ripped off and having shoddy work done. When I gave her the materials estimate, I told her the contractor who gave her the 2 grand estimate was probably going to be able to get the materials for $100-150 less than my estimate...because of their discount, and because they would use a lot of warped, wany, knotholed lumber. And I have built a lot of decks and even with my experience I know hers will take a LOT more than 20 hours to build, as LD1 mentions. I have told her it will likely take me a minimum of 35-40 hours, possibly more so she is looking at a cost of close to $1700 if I do it, if mileage (40 one way) is included. And believe me, the deck will meet code.

I am certain the reason she asked me is because she would prefer to have someone she knows is honest and reliable and does good quality work, but she will not save much over the long run by having me do the project. And I have made that clear to her. I figured the guy who gave her the 2 grand estimate would make about a $400 profit by marking up the cost of materials over their cost but little else.

 

[LD1]

I am certain the reason she asked me is because she would prefer to have someone she knows is honest and reliable and does good quality work, but she will not save much over the long run by having me do the project. And I have made that clear to her. I figured the guy who gave her the 2 grand estimate would make about a $400 profit by marking up the cost of materials over their cost but little else.

They would probabally get it dont much quicker though. I'm thinking half a day tops for someone who is in the business. But figuring the overhead cost, and general cost of doing business (insurance and all) IMO, the $2k is fair. As can be seen by you tentative $1700 estimate.

But I would have to ask....why do you anticipate 40 hours for a small 8x8 deck.

The two that I built for friends were both 12x20 with steps and handrail. The one we were done in a day. (all be it a full 12-13 hour day). The other took a few hours the next day because we got rained on the afternoon of the first. But this is with two people who know what they were doing.

The two decks I built for myself on my house (10x16 w/ramp and steps) and the 12x16 in the back were both done in a day with me by myself.

I dont know how you work, or how fast you work, but I'm just thinking that even at a slow pace, 2 days tops. Day one...set posts and joists. Day two....deck boards and handrail. Day 3, enjoy icy cold adult beverage:thumbsup:

 

[PineRidge]

Suggest sticking with a firm quote for labor rather than a per hour charge. That way you can never be accused of dragging your heals and at the same time you can do a quality job at you own speed.

 

[radioman]

Suggest sticking with a firm quote for labor rather than a per hour charge. That way you can never be accused of dragging your heals and at the same time you can do a quality job at you own speed.

That is exactly how I would do it. Because I have other commitments, other odd jobs, I try to do things efficient as possible without driving all over the place trying to run my tail off. I like to complete jobs so they can hire me back for other things. As for mileage - its kinda tricky, due to cost of cost is through the roof AGAIN.. with gas over 4 bucks a gallon, I'd start charging a buck a mile just as long you are not going over 3 days worth of work. Any more then that, it wouldve been cheaper for her to go with the contractor.

 

[JDgreen227]

40 hours for an 8X8 deck...well, have to select and load and transport and unload materials, measure for posts, dig down 48 inches for footings, mix concrete and pour for footings, concrete has to set up so cannot do any more there so spend the rest of the day laying out materials and drilling the beams. Second day install beams and joists and hopefully get stairs framed and install steps. Third day install deck boards and get a start on railings. And should I mention her lot slopes badly meaning I will have a headache doing the work, especially the stairs, and there is currently a cobbled-together stairs and railing setup I have to take apart and dispose of?

I will tell you something...when I do construction I do a 95% job getting things straight and level...I don't use an air nailer, I use a hammer for nailing and I don't nail down deck boards, I screw them down. When I install the deck boards I use pipe clamps to get them as tight as possible. LD1, how could you possibly build a deck in one day if you had to wait for the concrete footings to dry? And you make no mention of the lattice and stairs I would have to install .

You built a 12X16 in ONE DAY? BY YOURSELF?? I don't buy that at all...even if you didn't have to use footings.

 

[LD1]

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/photos/176772-water-garden-deck.html

This is the deck I did in a day. Sure, I didnt count the time to go get materials. I did that the day before, all except for the lattice, which I did later cause I wasnt sure If I wanted it or not.

That WHOLE project was done in 3 days of time off work. And I dont use nails or a power nailer either.

But it is just the little things/tricks that make it go faster. IE:

Deck was laid out so their was MINIMAL cutting of boards.
I use little spacers for the deck boards to maintain an even gap between boards.
And the spindles only took about an hour or so total to put them ALL up. (once the rails were up). I simply lay out ALL the ballusters along a few 2x4's and go down through and pre-drill ALL of them and get the screws started. And then it is simply installing the first one plumb, and then going down through using a short (~40" peice) of 2x4 for a spacer so they are all even.

Believe me or not. I have no reason to BS you. But that deck WAS done in 1 day. I dont mess around. BUT I will say, that everything was well planned and laid out prior to starting. That way I would know exactally what I wanted and made sure the wifey approved before I started. Once I got the approval and material, it was all downhill from their. And also keep in mind that when I say done it a day, that was pretty much sun-up to sun-down(dinner time). If I only worked 8 hours a day, or had to drive 40 miles one way just to start, then it probabally would have taken 2 days and maybe another for fetching material. SO maybe you arent far off. It just seems like 40hours is a lot for an 8x8