Charging problem

   / Charging problem #11  
Hi, with regard to the four wires into regulator. The two out of alt are probably the the AC output. One wire is DC+ to bat battery B+ (hooked to starter solenoid). The DC negative for the bat may be the voltage housing itself or simply wire number 4. Check the color of another gnd wire (light dash or any other known gnd) and see if matches the color of the fourth wire. If it does, this is your DC negative and should go to the bat negative. I would run it there directly. If it is of a different color then the VR case could be the negative DC path to bat, (most likely) your best bet then would be to run a lead from VR case to bat neg.
If the VR case is DC neg to bat then the fourth wire is probably is the SENSOR wire. This wire goes from bat to VR to tell the VR how strong the battery is so that the VR can set the charge rate accordingly.

cheers,
The
 
   / Charging problem #12  
Are the regulators you are using Yanmar ones? Bad voltage limiters/regulators are a common problem. I get many calls for them & no one that has ordered one (after checking their alternator has ever said that it didn't fix the problem. The YM2000 has a different system.
 
   / Charging problem #13  
Bad ground reference on a volt. reg. will kill a reg fast .. not great for the alternator either.... And it does sound like it is charging into 'no load' and high range, as it is not getting proper feedback.

Soundguy
 
   / Charging problem
  • Thread Starter
#14  
Len:
I'm pretty sure that these are Yanmar regs. I took one off a scrapped 1401d at my dealers. It had the same number on it as my original. I'm at work now and don't have the numbers with me, but I think it was S5601 or something like that. I will probably order a new one from you and quit screwing around with this. All indications that I can see, point to the regulator.
 
   / Charging problem #15  
Be prepared. That regulator will run around $60-$100 depending on the type.

Before you go through all that, see if you can find someplace that will test the alternator and regulator pair. I had the alternator and regulator for my YM1110D tested at a place called Auto Electric for $8. There has to be someplace near you that could to the same. Most good auto parts (NAPA for example) can test them.

Turned out my alternator was OK, but regulator was bad. Haven't replaced it yet, as I just got the newly rebuilt engine started Saturday. Man it runs nice!

Greg
 
   / Charging problem
  • Thread Starter
#16  
Greg:
I might do that. I have lived with the charging problem for about a year, so its just a minor irritation. I just charge my battery about once a month or so and get 20 or so starts from it, depending how cold it gets outside.
Jim
 
   / Charging problem #17  
The 1401 Alternator has a built in Bridge rectifier built into the back of the alternator.
 
   / Charging problem #18  
The alternator from the YM1110D has a bridge circuit (the guys at Auto Electric called it the diode pack) also. This does the chopping and folding so that you have only positive voltage, but it still is not DC. In simple systems, the regulator is nothing but a solid state relay that grounds the alternator when the battery voltage goes above some threshold. These simple systems use the capicitance of the battery to do the smoothing so there is no real rectifier. However, the guys at Auto Electric said my voltage regulator was actually a rectifier as well, but I find that hard to believe as the one lead from the alternator goes directly to the battery.

Greg
 
   / Charging problem #19  
"The alternator from the YM1110D has a bridge circuit (the guys at Auto Electric called it the diode pack) also. This does the chopping and folding so that you have only positive voltage, but it still is not DC."

Not to get technical here.. but current flow in only one direction is DC. Whether it is half or full wave rectification matters not.

" In simple systems, the regulator is nothing but a solid state relay that grounds the alternator when the battery voltage goes above some threshold."

There are many ways to accomplish voltage regulation.. too numerous to mention and describe here. The method that you refer to, shunting over voltage to ground, is generally accomplished with zenir diodes, and is not the practice of choice for automotive charging systems, due to the waste and engine load. Althought the older style 2 and 3 position regulators were not much more than predetermined taps on a coil, and a handfull of support hardware. A series pass regulator circuit is more probable , and many ( most )systems use some sort of feedback based variable regulation.

" These simple systems use the capicitance of the battery to do the smoothing so there is no real rectifier. However, the "

Simply speaking, a rectifier blocks current flow in one direction. A diode for example( lets say, silicon ) has an anode, and a cathode. A positive voltage applied in a circuit to the cathode will not result in current flow.A negative voltage applied in the same circuit will result in current flow, and there will be a forward voltage drop due to the silicone junction. Generally forward voltage drops range from .2 to .6 volts. Zenirs and other diodes like schotkey barrier diodes, and epoxy rectifiers have special rules and properties. Older style selinium rectifiers also have different characteristics. In general, if a conversion from ac to dc has happened.. a rectifier is present.
Generally in low end charging systems, like NiCad or NiMhyd, a capacitor is not used because the curent is flowing into a load anyway, and a capacitor will do no good, as the voltage between the half or full wave crests are already averaged.
A higher end charging system like that in a car however, will employ capacitors and inductors 'chokes' in combination to eliminate emi and rfi which may interfere with computerized ignition, engine cpu, and the radio.


"guys at Auto Electric said my voltage regulator was actually a rectifier as well, but I find that hard to believe as the one lead from the alternator goes directly to the battery.
Greg "

Sounds like it was just a regulator, and they were extremely clueless.
If this was fun.... look at DC generators as opposed to alternators...

Soundguy
 
   / Charging problem #20  
Here is a drawing of a common full wave bridge, aka, full wave rectifier, ake bridge rectifier. Note, that there are other ways to accomplish full wave rectification, than with 4 diodes.. transformers that are center taped for instance can employ two diodes in a slightly modified circuit to do accomplish full wave rectification. etc, etc.

Soundguy
 

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