Checking the timing on a Kubota L2500

[RobJ]

In my quest to conquer my overheating problem, this weekend I checked the timing per the manual. Really pretty simple.

1) I removed the fuelline on #1 injector at the pump, rotate the engine until you see fuel move in the delivery tube. You want to stop at the slightest movement.

2) When I did this for a living I used this tool. Sort of a sight glass to easily see the fuel move. I would have to remove the intake manafold to put this on so I bypasses it.

3) remove the side place on the bell housing and observe the timing marks. you can see the 20 degrees on the right, the line on the left is 15 degrees. Specs call for 17-19 degrees. The camera angle might be off but I'm pretty much right on 17 degrees.

No adjustments on the timing today. But those remembing my overheating woesI have some sort of good news. I ran the L pretty hard pulling a disk. The temp got a little over the half way mark and remained there. However it was a cool day, we''ll see this summer.

Rob

 

[CATMAN]

I never seen that type of tool before, but years ago on our Cat engines we would "flowtime" them. One would hang a spare fuel injection line onto #1 fuel injection pump "plunger and barrel" assembly, pressurize the fuel pump, and rotate the engine until the fuel almost quit flowing out the line(closing fill port internally) until you had 6 drops per minute=start of injection. Earlier, one would have installed a dial indicator probe on #1 piston and it would show how many thousandths of an inch before top dead center, then you would compare that to the service manual for how many degrees the dial indicator reading shows. Obviously, tractors with "degreed" flywheels are easier. The benefit of dial indicator on #1 piston, this that is takes any machining inaccuracies out of the equation(in case the alignment of crankshaft#1 TDC to flywheel #1 TDC mark was off). I just thought you might find this description interesting on the CAT engines. Nowadays, there is a machined slot in the counterweight of our crankshafts, you just set a magnetic probe into the side of the block at .040" clearance to the counterweight, run engine at 1100 rpm, then tell computer to electronically calibrate the timing(2 seconds). This way the ECM(computer) now knows the relationship between its electronic cam and crank sensors and the true mechanical TDC of #1 connecting rod journal= #1 piston TDC.

 

[wushaw]

Rob, I know it probably has been discussed before but have you thought of installing a mechanical guage so you can see what the block temp really is when your working it?

 

[RobJ]

It's on my list for the summer. I haven't seen any place that accepts the standard types for a mechnical gauge. If going to the trouble I would prefer a mech gauge.

At least this past weekend the temp gauge reached a point and didn't move after some hard running with the disk. so my guess is that should be about 160 degrees (thermostat temp). I'm thinking about getting another thermostat cover and tapping a hole in it for a mech gauge.

But I'm open to what others have done on one of these. I might bring home the temp sender and gauge one weekend and test it in some hot water. No numbers on the gauge you know.

Thanks,
Rob

 

[scott_vt]

But I'm open to what others have done on one of these. I might bring home the temp sender and gauge one weekend and test it in some hot water. No numbers on the gauge you know.

Thanks,
Rob

Afternoon Rob,
That sounds like a good idea to me.

Im intently interested in what your doing here ! Im really curious as to how you make out with this problem come summer time. Thanks for taking the trouble of posting those pics.

 

[wushaw]

Rob, where is the electrical unit screwed into? If it is somewhat simular to a car type you should be able to use adapters to install the mechanical sender.

 

[CamshaftLF]

Rob I have the sister model L2350 I installed a mech gauge norm mowing it runs 170 to180 if it working hard plowing or mowing down growed up fields it climbs up to 190-200 tractors 11yrs old.

 

[RobJ]

Rob I have the sister model L2350 I installed a mech gauge norm mowing it runs 170 to180 if it working hard plowing or mowing down growed up fields it climbs up to 190-200 tractors 11yrs old.

Camshaft, do tell where you installed it!! Sort of good news about the guage and bad news about the temps. The cooling system should be able to stablize at one temp.

Wushaw, the OEM unit is real small, in the back of the head. I've never seen one at the autoparts. I ordered a couple parts to dril and tap. One is the return just above the thermostat, the other is the bypass cover plate. Both were about $10 or so. The autoparts kind are a 7/8" or so threads.

Scott, my pleasure. I figure a lot of folks here won't get into the stuff I do but pics are always fun to look at if nothing else(I seem to hit the posts with pics first ). While I ordered the covers mentioned above, I also ordered a .20mm shim for the injection pump. I'm at 17 degrees now and the upper limit is 19 degrees. A little retarded timing might lower the temps if that's a problem...but I'll still be within specs. If I recall the shims advance or ****** the timing .5 degrees for each .05mm. You bet I'll post some pics or the pump removable and install. I'm figuring about 30 monutes because I think I have to remove the intake manifold.

Rob

 

[KICK]

160 degrees isn't overheating,its a normal operating temperature.

If it was getting up around the boiling point I'd worry, but sounds like your OK to me.

If you really want to know whats going on in an engine and how hot it is, get an oil temp gage... if you see oil temps up in the 200's she's running pretty hot.

you may need to lighten the workload, may not be abything wrong with tractor, just being asked to do something it wasn't designed for.

 

[scott_vt]

Mornin Rob,
My Massey usually runs in the 160 range, when it gets real hot maybe a bit more. Other than changing the oil in the injector pump and examining the glow plugs Ive never got any deeper into the fuel delivery system than that. Keep us posted !

 

[CamshaftLF]

Rob I purchased the gauge at wally world they where the set of 3 oil,temp,&amp. disassembled the oil & temp and installed them in the dash, there like 1 1/2" in diam. look good match the fuel gauge. There was no place on the engine to install the temp gauge so I drilled the top tank on the radiator and soldered the fitting in the tank the temp gauge is not electric it reads the temp till engine is cooled down. Oil gauge has the tube to gauge not electric oil pres runs 60 cold 50 to 55 warm. Cost of the gauges was 19.95

 

[RobJ]

Thanks Camshaft. I went by Autozone and pick up a mech water temp for $17. I opened it up and discovered a 1/4" pipe and 3/8" pipe fitting. Also some other fitting but I think it's to big for the kubota hole. I already have the taps for a 1/4" pipe so all I need it the tractor parts. Just got an email from Tractorsmart and they should be here next Thursday. If I getup there this weekend I might go head and drill and tap the one on the engine.

Rob

 

[geneP]

I had an L2250 of the '85-'90 series. The temp gauge would run in the center until I started pulling a 5' brush hog in thick bahia grass on a 95 degree day. The temp would climb to 3/4 or more and I'd go clean the radiator fins and screen. I never tried to run it longer to see if it would overheat. Cleaning the airlow seemed to help, but I think the little tractors tend to run warm when working hard in hot weather.

 

[RobJ]

I had an L2250 of the '85-'90 series. The temp gauge would run in the center until I started pulling a 5' brush hog in thick bahia grass on a 95 degree day. The temp would climb to 3/4 or more and I'd go clean the radiator fins and screen. I never tried to run it longer to see if it would overheat. Cleaning the airlow seemed to help, but I think the little tractors tend to run warm when working hard in hot weather.

I'm starting to see a trend from my fellow L2*** buddies. Thanks for all the input.

Rob

 

[workinallthetime]

rob i thought i might give you an idea, ive been a diesel mech for 12 years on gm engines and I have yet to see a timing issue cause a overheating concern but i have a good story.
when i was young in the business i bought a 4.3 short wide 5 speed truck the thing started getting hot in stop and go traffic, lots of heat no air movement right. well after a new water pump fan clutch pulling the radiator and having it clleaned it still did it, i was so glad the experienced techs i was learning from were so willing to spend my money. then one day i was doing a used car check out for resale and it was the same everything as my truck. so i thought what the heck and stole the radiator cap from that truck and put it on mine, poof problem solved. my old cap tested good but didnt perform as designed. now with that said my dad has an old well i know john deere 455 diesel lawn and garden guess what fixed his over heating problem yup radiator cap. sometimes we over look the simple things. Over ther years I have fixed numerous trucks with the same complaint with a 12 buck GM rad cap. I dont ever use aftermarket anything because of the failures and headaches ive seen the products cause. this may be your problem or may not but its definatly worth remembering to all who read.
thanks for the pics to by the way i have some guys asking about turning up the pump on their toro lawn mowers with diesel kubotas in them.

just wondering are you thinking pump timing is causing higher combustion temps? wouldnt that be evident with increse in exhaust smoke? have you watched the flow of coolant in your radiator to make sure you have a good fast stream? is your coolant clean and the recomended ratio? ive only seen a few diesel engine actually get hot or over heat and all those were either major engine failures, cooling system concerns, but never fuel delivery concerns. I have seen gas burners get hot due to base timeing out of whack or plugged up exhaust. exhaust might be another source of concern for a diesel, just have not seen that YET.

TODAY TOMORROW IS YESTERDAY

 

[RobJ]

Good Story! I've gone through some simple stuff but will post an update tomorrow when I get the pics off the camera. I forgot to mention last time I also replaced the thermostat...again with another kubota. Now things seem to be stablized..in the cooler weather anyway. Look for a post tomorrow...installing a temp gauge on a L2500.

Thanks,
Rob

 

[fitterski]

In my quest to conquer my overheating problem, this weekend I checked the timing per the manual. Really pretty simple.

1) I removed the fuelline on #1 injector at the pump, rotate the engine until you see fuel move in the delivery tube. You want to stop at the slightest movement.

2) When I did this for a living I used this tool. Sort of a sight glass to easily see the fuel move. I would have to remove the intake manafold to put this on so I bypasses it.

3) remove the side place on the bell housing and observe the timing marks. you can see the 20 degrees on the right, the line on the left is 15 degrees. Specs call for 17-19 degrees. The camera angle might be off but I'm pretty much right on 17 degrees.

No adjustments on the timing today. But those remembing my overheating woesI have some sort of good news. I ran the L pretty hard pulling a disk. The temp got a little over the half way mark and remained there. However it was a cool day, we''ll see this summer.

Rob

Thanks for the informative response! And a few years later the saga continues

My BOSCH inline pump doesn't seem to have the view-port or I'm too dumb to find it. It's on a normally aspirated F6L912 in my 1991 Deutz-Fahr-Dx-6.05 (european model).



The good book says to time it with a drip check but I have no idea what pressure to use and don't wanna blow the casing up with the only hand pump I have, an injector testing pump. This ritual requires the inlet port to be pressurised and the #1 outlet port to to have a u-tube where a forming drop is to be observed. It doesn't say what to see before the drip nor after, is it a last drop or a first one, etc. I would have expected a more professionally written procedure like

1 - Back the crank to about 90 degrees before compression TDC
2 - Hang a u-tube on #1 outlet port (line to #1 injector removed)
3 - Pressurize the inlet port 20-40psi(?) with a hand pump, maintain pressure.
4 - Observe no dripping out of u-tube (or no-flow as the case may be "I JUST DON'T KNOW!")
5 - Turn crank sneaking back up toward compression-TDC
6 - Stop when Fisrt/(OR is it Last?) drop forms on end of u-tube, THAT is "Commencement of Delivery"

I got this so screwed up I really wanna do another drill instead BUT my pump doesn't seem to have a view-port. The last 912 I did was in 2008 and on that one I just reused the pump and reinstalled it to punchmarks made during stripping.

This is a rebuilt pump with the cover screws sealed, the minute I break those open the value of the pump goes to 'core' but if necessary I can look in there too. Would really appreciate step-by step guidance on this so that I don't just FUBAR the whole procedure. I've got compression-TDC very precisely marked.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Addendum
This pump doesn't BTW seem to have a timing pin OR a view-port



I have since found the above info but it's a bit ambiguous from 2-3psi to 200-300psi