EFC-
It is apparent to me that your response is based on your emotional interpretation of my posts and not my actual words. Granted, there is always the room for misinterpretation when it comes to the typewritten word, but you have mis-characterized my words dramatically.
<font color="blue">I have run dozers my whole life...I know what dozers can do. </font>
Well, I'm happy you're such an expert in this field. Apparently I must just be completely out of my mind with regards to what a various sizes of dozers are capable of doing, regardless of what I've run and what I've seen.
No, I'll still characterize your <font color="blue"> "...you need to knock down 200 year old redwood trees..." </font>as an incorrect exaggeration. I'll stand by my earlier statement of, <font color="red">it doesn't take a 200 year old redwood tree to stop a 6K, 9K, or even 14K dozer - not by a long shot. </font> I still have plenty of land I need to clear - if you want to give clearing it a shot with that borrowed 6000# dozer, let me know. (Don’t worry, I won’t hold you to actually accomplishing much.)
<font color="blue"> Small dozers have their place just like large dozers. Each has a purpose and there is no universal machine....I dug a hole for the pool with that useless little dozer </font>
I suppose you may classify digging a pool or removing a few of stumps from a manicured lawn as a "big" job (and I AGREE, overkill for a "traditional" dozer), but I don’t classify such tasks that way. I personally classify those activities as "small" jobs.
Going further, please point to the specific parts of my earlier posts where I used the term "useless." The reason you’ll have trouble doing such is because I never said a tiny dozer was "useless." What I did say was, <font color="red">"I suppose you could do **some** work with it..."</font>, <font color="red">"Small dozer=small job"</font>,
<font color="red">"...bigger ones available that will offer you *much* more capability."</font>, and
<font color="red">"I can see where a tiny dozer may be good for as you say - "finesse work." </font>
Seems to me that I CONCURRED with your statement of being able to accomplish things with a tiny dozer! So why the hostility??? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Regarding pools, I've seen more than a few pools go in during my life too. If that little dozer you borrowed worked, GREAT! (I’d argue a CUT with a FEL & backhoe attachment would probably work just as well as that little dozer and still offer much more flexibility for the “typical” person once his pool building days are finished.) Out of curiosity, do all the pool contractors use dozers in your area? I’ve only seen skid steers and backhoes used - which I’d argue are MUCH more efficient for digging a pool than a dozer, but to each their own I suppose.
<font color="blue">using them like John S said, they are on hilly slippery terrain </font>
<font color="red">I could see where it may be good for that... </font>
Gee, sounds like I'm saying they could be good for something I hadn't thought of!
<font color="blue">Don't know about resale but I don’t buy equipment for myself to sell it I buy it to use.</font>
You’re missing my point. You’re telling me if you bought something you decided was a poor choice, you could care less how much money you got for it if you tried to resell it just because you “bought it to use?” That just isn’t reasonable thinking in my book. Regardless of your intent at the time of purchase, I believe you would want to recoup the most money possible.
My point was that I suspect JohnS may really need a larger dozer for what he wants to do. (Again, because most people underestimate their need regarding the size of the dozer they need.) Do I know JohnS will be unhappy with this tiny dozer? Nope - hence my suggestion to rent first to see if it was suited to his needs before he spent $15K. But if he did buy it new and then tried to sell it used, he would loose a lot more money than if he bought one of the other better known brands that already had been substantially depreciated (i.e. used). Basic business principles...
<font color="blue"> The dealer I borrowed the dozer from sells out every time he gets a load as fast as he can assemble them, must be a market for them.</font>
Please tell me where I said there was no market for them? First off, I never spoke to the market for new tiny dozers, I spoke to the market for used tiny dozers. I’ve NEVER seen a used Chinese dozer (of ANY size) for sale - it is simply not reasonable to imply as you have that there must be a large market for them out there because the local guy sells the new ones faster than he can put ‘em together. Sorry, it still may be a well built machine, but to compare the volume of tiny dozer sales to small dozer (e.g. d21, d3g, 450h, 550h, etc.) (new and used) is just silly.
It’s obvious to me that in reality, we are probably more closely aligned in our beliefs than you seem to initially think. Funny how you read so much in to my previous posts that simply wasn’t there. I'll go ahead and stand by my earlier posts.
It is apparent to me that your response is based on your emotional interpretation of my posts and not my actual words. Granted, there is always the room for misinterpretation when it comes to the typewritten word, but you have mis-characterized my words dramatically.
<font color="blue">I have run dozers my whole life...I know what dozers can do. </font>
Well, I'm happy you're such an expert in this field. Apparently I must just be completely out of my mind with regards to what a various sizes of dozers are capable of doing, regardless of what I've run and what I've seen.
No, I'll still characterize your <font color="blue"> "...you need to knock down 200 year old redwood trees..." </font>as an incorrect exaggeration. I'll stand by my earlier statement of, <font color="red">it doesn't take a 200 year old redwood tree to stop a 6K, 9K, or even 14K dozer - not by a long shot. </font> I still have plenty of land I need to clear - if you want to give clearing it a shot with that borrowed 6000# dozer, let me know. (Don’t worry, I won’t hold you to actually accomplishing much.)
<font color="blue"> Small dozers have their place just like large dozers. Each has a purpose and there is no universal machine....I dug a hole for the pool with that useless little dozer </font>
I suppose you may classify digging a pool or removing a few of stumps from a manicured lawn as a "big" job (and I AGREE, overkill for a "traditional" dozer), but I don’t classify such tasks that way. I personally classify those activities as "small" jobs.
Going further, please point to the specific parts of my earlier posts where I used the term "useless." The reason you’ll have trouble doing such is because I never said a tiny dozer was "useless." What I did say was, <font color="red">"I suppose you could do **some** work with it..."</font>, <font color="red">"Small dozer=small job"</font>,
<font color="red">"...bigger ones available that will offer you *much* more capability."</font>, and
<font color="red">"I can see where a tiny dozer may be good for as you say - "finesse work." </font>
Seems to me that I CONCURRED with your statement of being able to accomplish things with a tiny dozer! So why the hostility??? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Regarding pools, I've seen more than a few pools go in during my life too. If that little dozer you borrowed worked, GREAT! (I’d argue a CUT with a FEL & backhoe attachment would probably work just as well as that little dozer and still offer much more flexibility for the “typical” person once his pool building days are finished.) Out of curiosity, do all the pool contractors use dozers in your area? I’ve only seen skid steers and backhoes used - which I’d argue are MUCH more efficient for digging a pool than a dozer, but to each their own I suppose.
<font color="blue">using them like John S said, they are on hilly slippery terrain </font>
<font color="red">I could see where it may be good for that... </font>
Gee, sounds like I'm saying they could be good for something I hadn't thought of!
<font color="blue">Don't know about resale but I don’t buy equipment for myself to sell it I buy it to use.</font>
You’re missing my point. You’re telling me if you bought something you decided was a poor choice, you could care less how much money you got for it if you tried to resell it just because you “bought it to use?” That just isn’t reasonable thinking in my book. Regardless of your intent at the time of purchase, I believe you would want to recoup the most money possible.
My point was that I suspect JohnS may really need a larger dozer for what he wants to do. (Again, because most people underestimate their need regarding the size of the dozer they need.) Do I know JohnS will be unhappy with this tiny dozer? Nope - hence my suggestion to rent first to see if it was suited to his needs before he spent $15K. But if he did buy it new and then tried to sell it used, he would loose a lot more money than if he bought one of the other better known brands that already had been substantially depreciated (i.e. used). Basic business principles...
<font color="blue"> The dealer I borrowed the dozer from sells out every time he gets a load as fast as he can assemble them, must be a market for them.</font>
Please tell me where I said there was no market for them? First off, I never spoke to the market for new tiny dozers, I spoke to the market for used tiny dozers. I’ve NEVER seen a used Chinese dozer (of ANY size) for sale - it is simply not reasonable to imply as you have that there must be a large market for them out there because the local guy sells the new ones faster than he can put ‘em together. Sorry, it still may be a well built machine, but to compare the volume of tiny dozer sales to small dozer (e.g. d21, d3g, 450h, 550h, etc.) (new and used) is just silly.
It’s obvious to me that in reality, we are probably more closely aligned in our beliefs than you seem to initially think. Funny how you read so much in to my previous posts that simply wasn’t there. I'll go ahead and stand by my earlier posts.
