Chinese clone engines, the good bad and the ugly

[franklin2]

I like the moderation so far on this board. We have gotten a little off subject and political and I expect them to intervene but they haven't yet. I find the discussion interesting but I am expecting the heavy hand any minute. Hopefully we won't get out of hand and they won't show up.

 

[daugen]

The standard for small engines has always been a Honda in the last twenty years.
Sorry Kohler, you lost it. The Honda engine was finished beautifully, the parts finely made, and
the engine would run it seemed forever. I always adjusted the valves in mine, or had it done, at least once after new, and
then the Honda was like a perpetual motion machine. Always started, never misbehaved unless it was operator error.
I own a small engine from every current engine manufacturer except the Chinese. but I would buy a Lifan for a repower in a heartbeat. I have friends who are glowingly happy with them. Now where I would not put a Chinese engine is on top of my Gravely wing mowers I am renovating and building into a custom double wide rig, actually triple with the main mower.
Currently one has a Honda 340 and the other a Kawasaki single, slightly larger, with oil filter. Both primo engines for their time and both still running 25 years later. Gravely was an All American product for so many years with their Kohler singles and twins. I have the 19hp dinosaur twin. But Gravely spec'd two Japanese models over the Americans. Why? Just to be premium? Or because they really were better.

Time will tell if the Chinese clones have so perfectly copied the Honda that 25 years from now they will still be humming along. Will a standard model Briggs? Maybe a Vanguard. Maybe.......

B&S has built some really junky low priced engines so anyone who has owned one of them is a sure candidate for a far better running Chinese clone on a repower.

btw, I just drove across the entire state of NC to pick up US Made, NC Made farm implements. When I can, I do...

 

[mikehaugen]

The standard for small engines has always been a Honda in the last twenty years.
Sorry Kohler, you lost it.

Most I have heard would say kawasaki has claimed that title, at least in twin cylinder motors. I like the Honda single cylinder motors though.

 

[daugen]

Most I have heard would say kawasaki has claimed that title, at least in twin cylinder motors. I like the Honda single cylinder motors though.

agree completely, should have worded better.
too few Honda twins sold to know much about, wonder if they are good?
they sure are in motorcycles...
I have had Kawasaki twins in a z turn and a JD garden tractor. Powerful engines, great performance,
a little thirsty. But I guess any kind of power needs more to drink.

 

[daugen]

I wonder if any of the Chinese clone engines have installed EFI yet.
Probably still protected by patents but that hasn't stopped the Chinese before...
Likely they would have to copy what's out there now, and maybe that isn't so easy.

Just like Kia and Hyundai are making luxury inroads now,
why shouldn't Lifan do well with a high tech model with EFI?
Assuming it was stone reliable...and parts were available in regional warehouses.
I think it would be helpful in our market if Chinese mfg would stop calling their engines stupid names like Dragon or
Predator. A model number would be sufficient.

 

[mikehaugen]

.
I think it would be helpful in our market if Chinese mfg would stop calling their engines stupid names like Dragon or
Predator. A model number would be sufficient.

:laughing: I have always thought the same. Even kohler's "command" and "courage" are kind of stupid

 

[daugen]

:laughing: I have always thought the same. Even kohler's "command" and "courage" are kind of stupid

I always chuckled that yeah that engine had better have courage cuz it got the bottom of the barrel parts and is going to be run hard, low on oil and put away wet. Courage there young grasshopper.

 

[aczlan]

Most I have heard would say kawasaki has claimed that title, at least in twin cylinder motors. I like the Honda single cylinder motors though.

Just watch our for the plastic gear powering the cams, oil pump and water pump on the older ones...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8uXu-kB50U

Aaron Z

 

[3930dave]

I think it would be helpful in our market if Chinese mfg would stop calling their engines stupid names like Dragon or Predator. A model number would be sufficient.

Figured Predator was just Chinese truth-in-advertising/humour.

Rgds, D.

 

[Rio_Grande]

Reading this I just realized I have a 12 hp predator on our snow blower. Bought it direct as a blemished unit, has a 110 v starter never did find the blemish, delivered to my house for 120.00,,, couldn't buy rebuild parts for the tecumpshe for that.

 

[PILOON]

My take is that in all probability were you to stand at the end of the production line at the factory you would discover that 2 out of 3 engines would say Honda and every 3 would be a clone.

Either the ethics are not there or that is the bonus agreed upon when the manufacturers set up shop offshore.
Perhaps the American management even shares in the off brand profits offshore profits.

While parts are interchangeable to claim difference in quality is hard to accept as I just can't see the economics of running 2 productions and 2 inventories.

Sort of like at the grocery store with a national brand next to the store brand.
The claim is advertising, research, overhead and warranty is what makes the difference.

 

[tcreeley]

China makes Apple's computers. The quality can be good.
Now if our stupid pols had worked to stop outsourcing jobs, worked to stop these stupid trade deals - we could buy American products. Even our military buys overseas.

 

[bcp]

I think it would be helpful in our market if Chinese mfg would stop calling their engines stupid names like Dragon or
Predator. A model number would be sufficient.

Bruce
(Etymologies-R-US)

 

[TomSeller]

Most I have heard would say kawasaki has claimed that title, at least in twin cylinder motors. I like the Honda single cylinder motors though.

I agree with this.

As far as Chinese engines go, once we moved to just replacing an entire engine for $99, it became hard to justify fixing an engine. I do it anyway because I dislike the "throw away" world, but if I had to pay shop labor I would have to rethink it.

 

[Aussiebushman]

If my experience of Chinese made engines is anything to go on, there is absolutely NO guarantee of consistency. I'm now on my 5th generator in 5 years, the latest being an "AEG" that used to be one of the most reliable German brands on the market. It is now owned by Techtronics in Hong Kong and made in mainland China. To be fair, this one is going well after about a year. three of the previous four generators were rubbish, all failing within a few weeks or months. These included an expensive 10KVA electric start 4 stroke. Other than the AEG, only one generator - a Homelight 720 2 stroke has survived.

Now my Chinese made constant-pressure water pump has failed - fortunately just within the warranty period so that is going back for exchange (with another 2-year warranty on the replacement).

Chainsaws have been another problem. Two Chinese made saws were so bad I literally threw them away after a few weeks. Beware the use of the term "professional quality" on any Chinese saw! My German made Sachs Dolmar and a Japanese made Tanaka are still going strong, despite their advanced ages.

Don't know about the US, but here is Australia, it is well nigh impossible to buy anything that is not made in China. This includes brands like Makita. The best advice is NOT to buy tools over the internet. At least a reputable store chain will honour the warranty. That is why I mostly buy from Bunnings (a vast hardware chain). Their prices are usually fairly good and with a couple of minor exceptions dealing initially with underlings, getting replacements or full refund for a failed item is no problem. That is my second piece of advice - Keep going up the management ladder until you get the right solution.

 

[300UGUY]

I am a 3rd generation tool & die maker. I worked 35 years in different shops in the Detroit area. I understand your ideas of buying American. But guys, the ship has sailed. Manufacturing jobs are still going away, and there is no stopping it. I believe that the market forces are more powerful than any politician. The thing a lot of folks don't realize or don't want to admit to, is that those Chinese factories are owned or leased in some way, by US firms. The US companies are international in scope. A lot of what you think is made in the US is really assembled here from foreign parts. Manufacturing would not exist at all here without subsides. IMHO, it has all become a little like OZ, we blame the Chinese, the politicians, but the guys pulling the strings are in boardrooms of corporations.

 

[TomSeller]

I recall when "made in Hong Kong" had a bad reputation. Now Hong Kong has mostly a service industry. I recall when " made in Japan" had a bad reputation. Then the Japanese standard of living came up. Now China. Maybe next Mexico due to reduced shipping costs. Things change over time as the population becomes well to do. Of course, we are not going to hold the position as the world's top consumer for long.

 

[yomax4]

I've been to China for work. It is certainly true that 3 companies within 10 miles of each other can and do make nearly identical items such as small engines, chain saws, winches, welders, hand tools and a million other things. They copy the copies that were copied from copies. To say it makes no sense to have 2 productions lines making the same type product is like saying it makes no sense to have more than 1 bakery in town. These Chicoms are copy freaks. Nothing you or we can do now, It's a global economy and all the parts are sourced from all over the planet. China does make good and bad products that look identical. I was shocked at the pollution and grime that coats China. I never want to go back.

 

[3930dave]

For PRC, zero pollution standards are a major competive advantage.

Part of the un-level playing field that guaranteed they would take over most manufacturing sectors.

Rgds, D.

 

[TomSeller]

China will eventually start losing their best and brightest for a better place to live if they do not do something about their environmental issues. Average wages will increase, there will be better balance between counties than there is now. They have a lot of people so they will remain a powerhouse, but not to the extent they might be thought to be destined to be today.