Chinese clone engines, the good bad and the ugly

[SPIKER]

For PRC, zero pollution standards are a major competive advantage.

Part of the un-level playing field that guaranteed they would take over most manufacturing sectors.

Rgds, D.

I agree when the EPA can basically write their own paycheck by going after any industry they want without Congressional approval then they have effectively become a dictatorship within the USA. Look what they are attempting to do to the wood stove manufactures, most of which are small places making couple hundred stoves a month. The costs to make them EPA compliant & tests to prove it is compliant & maintain those compliance are upwards of 100K per model of stove. Each model must be tested and meet these stringent requirement. Mind you the Wood Stoves are just one of the latest industries to be threatened to be wiped out by costly and unnecessary regulations. Looking around and checking for pollution out of even all of the stoves made is hard to find stats but that pollution is extremely miniscule.

China will eventually start losing their best and brightest for a better place to live if they do not do something about their environmental issues. Average wages will increase, there will be better balance between counties than there is now. They have a lot of people so they will remain a powerhouse, but not to the extent they might be thought to be destined to be today.

That has been happening for a while because of the competition for jobs over there most of the under 30 crowd have high degrees & few good paying jobs. I work with a large number of good professional people over last few years. Now I have a Masters degree person working with him (27 yrs old) but is the typical book smart type who can't tie his own shoes. :/ He so far has been the exception to intelligent hard working people I have been around.

m

 

[3930dave]

I agree when the EPA can basically write their own paycheck by going after any industry they want without Congressional approval then they have effectively become a dictatorship within the USA. Look what they are attempting to do to the wood stove manufactures, most of which are small places making couple hundred stoves a month. The costs to make them EPA compliant & tests to prove it is compliant & maintain those compliance are upwards of 100K per model of stove. Each model must be tested and meet these stringent requirement. Mind you the Wood Stoves are just one of the latest industries to be threatened to be wiped out by costly and unnecessary regulations. Looking around and checking for pollution out of even all of the stoves made is hard to find stats but that pollution is extremely miniscule.

m

Pretty much any manufacturing sector, over time, becomes very competitive.

Forget about wages, energy, construction, taxes and any other input costs - just for a minute - better yet, let's pretend they all are equal, both sides of the globe.

Even then, cost-wise, the country with zero pollution regs is going to win the business battle. Obviously, losing out in other areas.

Plenty of bright people here (govt and industry) knew exactly what was going to happen to our manufacturing base when this shift started, 40+ years ago - just based on allowing cheap goods into the country that were manufactured in countries with zero pollution regs.

Rgds, D.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Since we seldom wear out a small engine around our place as long as they start and run fine is my main concern. I still think metal quality can be lacking in low end China goods but is it an issue in $100 engine? At this point I think not.

 

[Aussiebushman]

Gale - your comments are accurate enough, but I personally take exception to anything promoting the "throwaway society" If you lived in the bush, as I do, the failure of a $100 item can be just as serious as the failure of a $1000 item if it affects power, water supply, fire-fighting, removal of fallen branches etc etc.

Many of us on this forum build our own gear, not just as a hobby, or because we can, but because we want the longevity and reliability we can build into the item without worrying about premature failure. That said, if that item needs an engine to drive it, the choices become very limited due to even the "best" brands now being made in China. As stated by others right through this thread,, the quality of Chinese machinery is dubious at best, non-existent at worst.

To be fair, some of the Chinese tools are fair, mainly when they do not involve engines but they are invariably copies of the original and the problem is that materials are inferior, shortcuts are taken, or the component angles, fixings are wrong, due to the copiers not understanding or caring about the design issues. An example of this is a farm (hi-lift) jack where a minor design fault in the locking mechanism will turn a useful tool into a potential deathtrap. I had to rebuild mine to overcome what was the simplest fault - too shallow a notch and a release arm mounted at the wrong angle that pulled the notched plate away from the lock pin.

So - you might be happy to throw away such an item and just replace it. Tough luck if you happen to be trapped under the load when it fails!

 

[joeu235]

There's no such thing as "Made in ..." anymore.

I work for a very high tech manufacturing company. Head quarters are in the Netherlands, engineering in California & India, purchasing in Texas and China, most machining occurs in Singapore, many parts are shipped from Singapore to California or Japan for specialty processing and then back to Singapore, product assembly and testing in Texas and Israel. What is the country of origin for our products?

 

[PILOON]

There's no such thing as "Made in ..." anymore.

I work for a very high tech manufacturing company. Head quarters are in the Netherlands, engineering in California & India, purchasing in Texas and China, most machining occurs in Singapore, many parts are shipped from Singapore to California or Japan for specialty processing and then back to Singapore, product assembly and testing in Texas and Israel. What is the country of origin for our products?

Hienz 57?

According to legal definitions, USA- if 50% of cost is US and that includes taxes, transportation and profits.
So since often shipping is a major portion of cost the (shipping) is best to be COD.

 

[muddstopper]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/01/w...ssionals-leave-china.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Gale - your comments are accurate enough, but I personally take exception to anything promoting the "throwaway society" If you lived in the bush, as I do, the failure of a $100 item can be just as serious as the failure of a $1000 item if it affects power, water supply, fire-fighting, removal of fallen branches etc etc.

Many of us on this forum build our own gear, not just as a hobby, or because we can, but because we want the longevity and reliability we can build into the item without worrying about premature failure. That said, if that item needs an engine to drive it, the choices become very limited due to even the "best" brands now being made in China. As stated by others right through this thread,, the quality of Chinese machinery is dubious at best, non-existent at worst.

To be fair, some of the Chinese tools are fair, mainly when they do not involve engines but they are invariably copies of the original and the problem is that materials are inferior, shortcuts are taken, or the component angles, fixings are wrong, due to the copiers not understanding or caring about the design issues. An example of this is a farm (hi-lift) jack where a minor design fault in the locking mechanism will turn a useful tool into a potential deathtrap. I had to rebuild mine to overcome what was the simplest fault - too shallow a notch and a release arm mounted at the wrong angle that pulled the notched plate away from the lock pin.

So - you might be happy to throw away such an item and just replace it. Tough luck if you happen to be trapped under the load when it fails!

Good point for sure. I had a flat on the car a week ago and the seal broke so my 12 volt air compressor would not help. After we finally got the spare on then aired it up it was about 20 minutes before they closed. The tires were 60-75% worn but I left with four new ones for the same reason you gave for buying quality engines. There are things that break and the cost to replace may be a small part of the total damages caused by the failure. A flat tire on an interstate can lead to death and we put this car on 2000-3000 mile trips every year. Driving in snow tonight was less stressful than had the old set still been on the car.

 

[3930dave]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/01/w...ssionals-leave-china.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Education/skills/wealth makes moving easier, so that trend is somewhat natural; esp. given the pollution levels in China today.

Being a Commonwealth country, there was an influx of immigrants to Canada in the late 80's from Hong Kong.

Once HK stabilized post handover, some of the men (professional or business class) went back, while keeping their residence here. In the flat-tax, pro-business evironment of HK they could (legally) make more money in a couple of years than they would have working the rest of their life in Canada.

Canadians, but esp. our govt, could learn from that dynamic.

Rgds, D.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/01/w...ssionals-leave-china.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Thanks for the link.