chinese maybe!!!

[Soundguy]

I don't think asking them to survive to at least about 4000 hours without significant mechanical failure is out of line. That's a number that is usually an apples to apples for most cut sized tractors. ( higher for UT/AG ).

soundguy

 

[Builder]

I don't think asking them to survive to at least about 4000 hours without significant mechanical failure is out of line. That's a number that is usually an apples to apples for most cut sized tractors. ( higher for UT/AG ).

soundguy

Exactly....why buy a tractor that woun't make it to 3,4, 5,000 hours? My NH has 6,700 hours on it and still runs perfect on original engine & trans. I'd be upset if it didn't go 10,000 hours before significant problems. If Chinese tractors are going to be compared to the likes of Deere in a thread, then they have to last as long, right? If they don't, then they're NOT comparable in terms of longevity. Longevity is a primary selling feature of anything someone buys. If a Chinese tractor costs 30% less than a "quality" tractor, but only lasts 1/3-1/2 as long, then what was saved?

Chevy truck with 1 million miles:
http://wcco.com/local/million.miles.truck.2.651861.html

Chevy truck with 2 million miles:
http://www.bismarcktribune.com/news...cle_f2c75930-e227-5965-b1e9-0752eb12dcc1.html

 

[rjkobbeman]

Exactly....why buy a tractor that woun't make it to 5,000 hours? My NH has 6,700 hours on it and still runs perfect on original engine & trans. I'd be upset if it didn't go 10,000 hours before significant problems.

I think the point was, the Chinese tractors are economical, lower-end tractors. Nobody expects them to go 30k hours. Most owners wouldn't have a problem with throwing them away and buying another if they 'died' after 5k hours. The point is valid. I'm not a Chinese tractor fan, but you can't knock 'em if they only last 5k hours. They aren't built, nor are they priced, that way.

I have been doing some cost/benefit comparison for riding mowers lately. I really love the Kubota GR series mowers. But the thought of buying one at Home Depot for a 1/4 of the price really is tempting for me. I'm sure 4 brand new Home Depot specials will last at least as long as one premium brand.

It is all where your priorities and needs/wants are.

For my "big" tractor, I'm Orange all the way... but for my "cheaper" equipment, I don't want to spend big money.

 

[Soundguy]

builder makes a point. if a unit costs less and performs as long as one that costs more.. then it's a good deal. if it costs half as much and lasts half as long.. it works out to the smae $$ per hour.. and isn't a 'better' deal.

No matter who makes it.. I want it to last..

I get used to something and want to have it around a while..

soundguy

 

[JoelD]

I think the point was, the Chinese tractors are economical, lower-end tractors. Nobody expects them to go 30k hours. Most owners wouldn't have a problem with throwing them away and buying another if they 'died' after 5k hours. The point is valid. I'm not a Chinese tractor fan, but you can't knock 'em if they only last 5k hours. They aren't built, nor are they priced, that way.

I have been doing some cost/benefit comparison for riding mowers lately. I really love the Kubota GR series mowers. But the thought of buying one at Home Depot for a 1/4 of the price really is tempting for me. I'm sure 4 brand new Home Depot specials will last at least as long as one premium brand.

It is all where your priorities and needs/wants are.

For my "big" tractor, I'm Orange all the way... but for my "cheaper" equipment, I don't want to spend big money.

This is a question that many of us run into.

Another thought, one that my dad regularly bring up, is the fact that when you need to use something, you want it to work. A big difference from a low priced machine to high priced can be reliability, not just longevity.

In other words, I had a Kubota tractor with many many many hours on the clock, the machine was over 30 years old. She started every single time, not matter what, she started and worked as intended every single time.

A lesser quality machine can tend to have many little problems, nothing maybe over significant, but that day, when you are in your going to work clothes, and in a rush and just want to jump on and get something down, is the day that less expensive machine will not start, or run into some other problem.

I used to buy Chinese tools, super cheap and did the job, until the time, in dead of winter, trying to change plow blade cutting edge in the snow, when the impact socket split up the middle. Now back to only craftsman tools. I would've gladly spent double the $50 difference that night to not have that socket split.

I've probably been as clear as mud.

Joel

 

[rjkobbeman]

This is a question that many of us run into.

Another thought, one that my dad regularly bring up, is the fact that when you need to use something, you want it to work. A big difference from a low priced machine to high priced can be reliability, not just longevity.

In other words, I had a Kubota tractor with many many many hours on the clock, the machine was over 30 years old. She started every single time, not matter what, she started and worked as intended every single time.

A lesser quality machine can tend to have many little problems, nothing maybe over significant, but that day, when you are in your going to work clothes, and in a rush and just want to jump on and get something down, is the day that less expensive machine will not start, or run into some other problem.

I used to buy Chinese tools, super cheap and did the job, until the time, in dead of winter, trying to change plow blade cutting edge in the snow, when the impact socket split up the middle. Now back to only craftsman tools. I would've gladly spent double the $50 difference that night to not have that socket split.

I've probably been as clear as mud.

Joel

I agree.

On some equipment, down-time is not an option. When I need the tractor, I don't want to deal with "issues". When I need my lawn mower, I am a little more flexible.

All of this is very personal. Depends on a person-by-person, equipment-by-equipment, situation-by-situation basis.

For me, the more expensive piece of equipment I buy, the more I think about better quality and long-lasting. For the lesser expensive equipment, I think more about just buying another one when it wears out. Not only that, but I can buy a new lawn mower in 30 minutes. Buying a new tractor takes much, much longer.

 

[Brad_Blazer]

builder makes a point. if a unit costs less and performs as long as one that costs more.. then it's a good deal. if it costs half as much and lasts half as long.. it works out to the smae $$ per hour.. and isn't a 'better' deal.

No matter who makes it.. I want it to last..

I get used to something and want to have it around a while..

soundguy

Of course there are other considerations but in your example the cheap tractor is the better deal if you consider the time value of money. At 5% interest, a $10,000 loan for 10 years has a monthly payment of $106. A $20,000 loan for 20 years is $131.

 

[doall]

I know I really didn't buy American when I bought my New Holland. But I think I supported more american workers. Not going on a rant here, but I think buying American now is more important than ever and getting harder to do every day. I am not knocking anyone for what he or she bought, just throwing that out there. USA

 

[Turbys_1700]

My biggest concern with a Chinese tractor would be dealer support and parts.

My NH 1720 has only needed filters and oil and I have a good dealer close by.

No Chinese dealers close by.

Eventually, the Chinese will/should get their quality up to USA/Japanese/European quality.

This due, in no doubt, to the influence and guidance of companies like Deere, CAT, MF, AGCO, ect...

 

[Builder]

I think the point was, the Chinese tractors are economical, lower-end tractors. Nobody expects them to go 30k hours. Most owners wouldn't have a problem with throwing them away and buying another if they 'died' after 5k hours. The point is valid. I'm not a Chinese tractor fan, but you can't knock 'em if they only last 5k hours. They aren't built, nor are they priced, that way.

I have been doing some cost/benefit comparison for riding mowers lately. I really love the Kubota GR series mowers. But the thought of buying one at Home Depot for a 1/4 of the price really is tempting for me. I'm sure 4 brand new Home Depot specials will last at least as long as one premium brand.

It is all where your priorities and needs/wants are.

For my "big" tractor, I'm Orange all the way... but for my "cheaper" equipment, I don't want to spend big money.

Problem is, you also have to do 4 purchases, 4 (or more) days of down time to go out buy the tractor, have it delivered, assemble it with Chinese written directions and get back to work. My tractors make me my money. I don't have time to buy/throw away a tractor every few years.

Junkyards & landfills have enough junk in them. We live in such a "disposable" society. What ever happened to buying quality items designed to last a long time?

IMO, it makes more sense to buy something that lasts. If you outgrow/dislike it years down the road, you can sell/trade it in and still get good money towards a new one.

 

[20 20]

Are there a lot of any model or make of tractor with 29,000 hours? And somehow , I doubt you would run out and buy that tractor for 11 grand unless the wiring has been redone with gold

:thumbsup: BINGO! another question I'd have to ask is when was it rebuilt.

 

[20 20]

USA companies are probably not as bad as third world companies about being dirty, because they have the EPA and Green Advocates watching their every move. Ken Sweet

The EPA and green advocates only protect US, just check on where used cellphones end up???????

In the end it all boils down to $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ nothing more nothing less. If jack so and so can raise the $$$ to get away with dumping ______, it'll happen.

 

[20 20]

As the owner of a Chinese Tractor I never intended on it lasting 30,000 hours. 3,000 hours yes. I have not seen many Chinese tractors above 45HP and I have not seen many main line tractors in this HP class above 3,000 hours.

There are jinma's out there with over 3000hrs on them, folks just have to check the chinese sites. I'm not saying there are millions and I believe that is because they are a fairly new machine{US} and not many folks own one. Comparing %age of use on chinese tractors{in the US} to name brands is like comparing McD's to the home town restaurant. McD's will have made millions, but is it any better then_____ home town cooking?????

Asking one to last 30,000 Hours is like asking a Chevy truck to last for 1 million miles.

That'd be closer to 1,740,000 miles and of course this would be a small chevy not a semi.

You are comparing a tractor that is built along the same line as a semi. It can easily make 30,000 hours or 1 million miles. Asking a cut to do the same is few and far between just like asking a average pickup to do the same.

Just makes me laugh how some on this site think????

Chris

Agreed :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

 

[Soundguy]

Of course there are other considerations but in your example the cheap tractor is the better deal if you consider the time value of money. At 5% interest, a $10,000 loan for 10 years has a monthly payment of $106. A $20,000 loan for 20 years is $131.

considering it's hard to get a loan longer than 6ys on equipment, that margin drops to a few bucks..

soundguy

 

[studor]

Longevity is a primary selling feature of anything someone buys. If a Chinese tractor costs 30% less than a "quality" tractor, but only lasts 1/3-1/2 as long, then what was saved?

Actually -- a lot
Problem is everyone is in a bit different situation. If, as you say, the tractor is used to make a living, longevity may be an important factor since you may actually get to have 3000 hours on it in a couple of years. If, on the other hand, your predicted use is less, then the time value of money and affordability are more important factors. In my case the Chinese tractor was half the cost of anything else similarly equipped new and was affordable to me. I could have, as has been suggested by many on other threads on this forum gone out and borrowed the difference @ "0 percent" and paid for it over the next five years. That route seemed inherently foolish to me. In a couple of years my tractor has paid for itself with what I have done with it. The used tractor I had before never did but I sold it to some other sentimental fool who loves old iron like I do and has no expectations that it will ever earn its keep again. If in five or ten years when my current tractor has 3000 hours on it and it is candidate for the scrap heap, I will still be further ahead. JMHO
By the way -- I guess those Chevy trucks did not have the flaming windshield washer option:laughing::laughing:

 

[Soundguy]

as cheap as old iron goes for, I don't doubt many of them can pay for themselves many times over their life.. perhaps even at least once for each owner.. that's not an unreasonable expectation..

soundguy

 

[Builder]

The bottom line here is this: There's the age-old TBN comparison of the guys who own Chinese tractors comparing them to the guys who own non-chinese tractors (like Kubota, NH, Deere, etc.).

The pro-chinese owners like to state that their chinese tractors are "as good" or a few go even further and state they're "even better" than their neighbors' non-Chinese brands.

However, to leave out the longevity piece of the "as good" or "even better" part of the overall part of ownership of a tractor is a glaring omission. How long a tractor lasts is one of the biggest factors the buying decision of a tractor in the first place.

It really does make you laugh how some people on this site think. :laughing:

To conveniently leave out longevity in a purchasing decision.........:laughing:

How about parts & service of Chinese v. non-chinese?

 

[Brad_Blazer]

considering it's hard to get a loan longer than 6ys on equipment, that margin drops to a few bucks..

soundguy

It was just an example of the cost of capital investment. That extra $10,000 could be invested in other profit-making equipment or it could reduce the principal on another loan. Most would agree that investment capital is worth at least a 5% APR. On the other hand if it's stuck in a mattress then of course you are far better off having it invested in equipment with a longer service life.

 

[sweettractors]

It was just an example of the cost of capital investment. That extra $10,000 could be invested in other profit-making equipment or it could reduce the principal on another loan. Most would agree that investment capital is worth at least a 5% APR. On the other hand if it's stuck in a mattress then of course you are far better off having it invested in equipment with a longer service life.

Is it really true that Chinese tractors sell for as much as 10K New today? When I sold them about 10 years ago, my cost was around $3K for a new top line 284 Jinma. (28 HP). Ken Sweet