Chinese Tractors Aren't Worth the Risk

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: Chinese Tractors Aren\'t Worth the Risk

Well everyone has an opinion and mine is that I will pass and spend a few extra bucks for a bota. Now I must tell you I am a proud owner of a Hyandi and love it, but after a little and I mean little research I just don't think they are for me. Why? When you read that the fluids have been flushed and replaced with good US fluids on brand new tractors well that made me wonder if this was really what I wanted. Then doing a little more checking and seeing the problems with the key switch that should be replaced as soon as you get the tractor and oh the alum washers should also be replaced, oh and don't forget to retorque the heads after 50 hours. I am not really concerned with fit and finish but it says how the tractor was made and how much care went into the parts. This is only my opinion and I think this is a good tractor for some people but I am with Mart its not my cup of tea.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: this subject

earthmaster,
Are you saying some of the Agco, or Agco Allis tractors are made in China??? Name the exact models!!!
I have (12) tractors, includeing (2) that are near new Agco Allis' brand. The point is, i've NEVER seen an Agco or Agco Allis tractor that was made in China!!
I have looked over and used a few tractors from China, and i'll just be blunt and say all i saw was junk! My friend bought a new one, and all it has been is problems!! Leaks, leaks, and more leaks!! Way too soft castings, with studs pulling right out of the soft metal, bent 3 point arms, and on and on!!! He's a good mechanic, and he keeps siliconeing it, and welding on it to keep it going, but he's about had it!! He's looking for something else as i write this!!
Most of the dealers i've seen selling china built tractors are no longer selling them, and i can see why!! I can honestly say i'd NOT buy a chineese built tractor if it cost 1/2 as much as "any" other compact!!! I'm absolutely amazed any one would put up with their problems to save a few bucks!
I'm not picking on any one here, but in my opinion compact tractors are light duty enough with out buying some thing built out of such poor quality materials like the chineese tractors.
I don't know how to add a picture here, but maybe you can cut and paste the addy's i'll post.
Robert

http://www.fototime.com/{6B0AADCD-3720-45BE-A3FC-1A319FDB6EA1}/picture.JPG

http://www.fototime.com/{1E5498E8-8489-4895-A48A-D3CC6E12473D}/picture.JPG

 

[Redfisher]

Re: Chinese Tractors Aren\'t Worth the Risk

<font color=blue>I'm not picking on any one here, but in my opinion compact tractors are light duty enough with out buying some thing built out of such poor quality materials like the chineese tractors.</font color=blue>

thats funny our Chinese tractor has done everything from ripping stumps out of the ground to pulling tractor's 3 times the size out of the field onto trailers,without hurting what you call weak castings.
<font color=blue>Well everyone has an opinion and mine is that I will pass and spend a few extra bucks for a bota</font color=blue>

Yes we are all entitled to an opinion,Mine maybe different then yours but one things for sure you will spend more then a few more dollars /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif And thats just my opinion.

Peace Out

 

[Tractors4u]

Re: this subject

"The point is, i've NEVER seen an Agco or Agco Allis tractor that was made in China!!"

I see this claim quite often, and yes John Deere has developed a joint venture with the Chinese, but I have yet to see a Chinese built New Holland, Deere, AGCO, or Massey yet. Yes I am sure that they get some bit and pieces from China as many other products, but no they do not get entire tractors or any main components from China. If there are any Chinese built domestic brands please post some model numbers and I will stand corrected. It wouldn't make sense for them to do it. They get their compacts from Japan, for some models just the engines, so why would they buy full size tractors from China? Like the poster said, if they have to drain the low quality Chinese fluids out and change out the battery, why would anyone think the tractor is any better?

 

[JohnS]

Re: this subject

They are flocking to China for the same reason we build factorys in Mexico, low cost labor. Japan has become almost as expensive as the US.

" if they have to drain the low quality Chinese fluids out and change out the battery, why would anyone think the tractor is any better?"

And why would that mean they are bad? So, if they ship with a high-grade US battery and synthetic oil, that would make them great tractors?

The Chinese ship their tractors with 30wt oil. It is plentiful and the tractor will operate fine with it, unless in cold temps. Dealers can also have the tractors shipped dry, if they want. What oil was used in tractors that were built in the 1950's? Did they break-down more because they didn't have the newer higher tech oil of today? Most dealers will change these fluids on initial assembly and check-out. Even if they didn't, if doing this work yourself, is too much of a hassle, you are correct, these tractors are not for you.

The tractors can be shipped with or without batteries, also. My understanding is that they fail within 3 months or will last around 3-4 years. I haven't seen any 3 month battery failures in my survey results. I know many that have used them in cold climates without problems. I don't use the tractor during winter, so will use the Chinese battery till it fails and then purchase a US one. Its no problem for me to change, since I remove it in late fall, for storage anyway. I don't know if Japanese tractors come with Japanese batteries or not. I do know that Japanese original equipment car batteries don't last any longer than US ones. They all use cheap 3 year batteries, to keep cost down and get you through the warrantee period.

The corollary between fluids and battery to the quality of the tractor, I feel is a very poor one. Soon we will be down to "the seat cracked in winter, therefore it is junk". I have read on some of the other specific tractor forums, about issues, even with the big 3. I don't jump on those issues and start proclaiming they are junk, or make wild judgements. Since I don't own one and have experience with one, I don't post or pass judgement on them.

Again, I have not or will ever proclaim these tractors are for everyone. They do fill a niche, for people that can handle the mostly small issues that come up. From what I can see, most Jinma owners are satisfied with this.

Brent, to illustrate what I am trying to say:
From a website, I can find out if someone is Grey Market and/or used tractor dealer. Grey market tractors compete near the same price range as new Chinese tractors. So, I could surmize that someone who is posting uninformed or loosly logical conclusions maybe trying to discredit the Chinese tractor, so readers would purchase a Grey Market tractor. Can sound logical, could be a personnel opinion. Posting such would only serve to inflame. Since I have no direct contact with said dealer, their customers, or understand their business practices, obvously it would not be fair, and I would not make that statement. This is just being used as an example as to how you and some others have been drawing conclusions within this thread.

 

[Tractor_Barn]

Re: this subject

John, I think one resaon you hear so much about the Chinese tractors getting new batteriees and fluids is because the information is available. The battery and fluid issues has been discussed in great detail on other boards. I make it clear on my web site that I address those issues before the customer ever sees the tractor. We don't hear the horror stories about the familiar names because the dealer would probably loose his dealership for letting the problems be known.

Brent, I looked at the greys and nearly ordered a container but they didn't fill my needs. I have nothing against them and, like the Chinese imports, they have their place in the market.

Vince

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: this subject

Well Steve you are really one good salesman. To tell you the truth I am going to buy a Bota before the week is out. Having said that I realize that it will break down when I need it the most. Hence I am considering a Chinese tractor to be a "backup" and handle the grass cutting with a belly mower. This will do two things for me:
1. Keep the hours down on the Bota (not gonna need it after I get everything done)
2. Grass cutting will be alot easier with a MMM that stays on a tractor.
I still am not convinced on the Chinese tractors but they are gaining ground. I also have a friend in AL who is doing his own research and we will prob knock heads on this one. I do have some serious reservations and if nothing else maybe you can erase some of my fears of this tractor:
1. I understand about the fluids some things are not available in some countries.
2. I understand about the batteries. You get the cheapest thing that will work for a "period of time"
3. I have seen on websites and please don't ask me where anymore that the alum washers should all be replaced, this is supposed to stop most of the leaks. Exactly what is involved here?
4. I have also seen that you are encouraged to change out the ignition switch to a Ford one for reliable starting. It was also stated that this sometimes required the tracing of wires to ensure the right ones got on the right terminals. I understand this and will cover this more later.
5. I was told of the US requirement that auto importers have to show a 10 year plan for replacement parts. Are tractors manufactures also required to have this system in place?
6. Are there service manuals available? By this I am shop manuals and not just owners manuals?
7. Now I have to ask and I know I am sparking alot of objectivity but, well with the fit to finish not that good, the fluids not that good, the ignition switch not that good, the washers not that good, the battery not so good, well these are the things that I can see, touch, and feel. Here comes your salesman part, what makes the things I can't see better than what I can see?
Go into any bearing shop and they will be more than happy to show you the difference in Chinese vs Western world bearings. Go to any steel website and see the differnce in the grades of steels. Go to a hardware website and you will learn the difference in nuts and bolts. What I am seeing in the Chinese tractors is that they are built the least expensive way possible. Having said this I already know that if I buy one I am going to have to lay on a good supply of misc materials and have a welder fired up and ready to go. But what about the engines and transmissions? If I have to go to a machine shop to have a part fabricated its going to cost alot more than what I am saving in the original purchase.
I guess my biggest fear is that I would be buying a Yugo not a Honda where if the fuel pump goes out you scrap the car. Which brings us back to the support network and more importantly how long will it be in place if the company or subcontractor (supplier) decides to close there doors. Having thought about this I guess my question is: Is there a Western world equivelent to these engines and transmissions, did they copy their design from Deere or Ford that their parts are interchangable?
Again I am not trying to tick anyone off or get into a tinkling contest, all I am doing is looking for answers that will provoke me to buy one. The price difference is just to great to ignore.

 

[Tractors4u]

Re: this subject

John,

I can honestly say that I am not trying to inflame anyone. I love discussing tractors. Yes I do sell grey markets. If I didn't, I would still be here talking tractors because I love anything tractor related. An importer that I used to buy from tried to get me into the China built tractors but I was not interested in them. I am sure that there are misconceptions about the Chinese tractors as there are about the greys. People come to me and say "I heard that I can get any part I need from John Deere" and I have to let them down. On the same level I hear people selling the Chinese tractors say that the big 3 get many of their tractors from China. I have yet to see proof of that. Somebody give me some model numbers.

 

[JohnS]

Re: this subject

Not Steve, and didn't see a Steve in the thread, so suspect you are replying to me. Not a salesmen in any capacity, as well. If you are serious about buying a Chinese tractor, you will need to go to the dealer and discuss these questions with them. There are many makes of Chinese tractors, Jinma only being one. Also each particular dealer is different in what they do, all the more reason to discuss with them.

Being a Jinma owner, I have learned considerable about these tractor in the last few years. Here is what I know about Jinma 254/284 to some of your questions. Please keep in mind that I am NOT an expert.

1, Gee, and I would have thought it was the other way around! /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif Sorry, couldn't resist! If in your shoes, would consider a garden tractor, save the rest of the money for the day you may need to rent a tractor, while yours is in the shop. .

2. A MMM has only been available recently from Jinma. It is new, and there has been no user feedback to date. A rear finish mower maybe more appropriate.

4. I suspect you are refering to the Maverick website. Mike makes this info available to all, to help other dealers and users. How many dealers of non-chinese tractors post about issues and corrective actions? Where can I find the equivelent info? Do you believe they have no issues? I don't like the fact because a particular dealer is willing to openly post this, and other don't, that is to used against them. BTW, just like the battery, very few failures have been reported in the survey, if any. It is probably something that may become an issue a year or two out. Like the battery, I will replace it when it fails.

7. No, I don't believe these are things that you have personally seen or touched, just what you may have read about. I guess you are assuming you are seeing only part of the dirty laundry, and not all. An organized dealer network would probably mean you would not see any issues posted. Does no news mean good news?


PS: There have been many trolls posting (both for and against chinese tractors) lately. Many of the posts have been deleted. It would help tremendously with your credability if you registered and become part of the group.

 

[JohnS]

Re: this subject

I have heard of cases where dealers or salesmen of Chinese tractors have claimed that the engines were Yanmar. Cases like that, just make it worse. I personnally don't know of models that are made in China. I have just seen the links, you have. I would be interested in the models as well. It was just picking-up that one sentence from another poster that bothered me. It seems that many people have been picking-up tidbits from the web, and haven't even touched one, talked to a dealer, or have lumped any problem with any chinese tractor, into all.