Choker Chain

[MChalkley]

Well, I guess it depends on your definition of small. The ones I'm talking about were about the diameter of a large paper clip - easily able to tear through just about anything.

Mark

 

[Muhammad]

Mark,

Well, that's not exactly 'small' to me but just the thought of those shards flying through hands - thanks for bringing it up.

 

[Bird]

I hate wearing gloves, too, but I have to wear my leather work gloves when doing brush clearing and using my cable choker (and yep, sometimes those danged little strands on the ends of the cable poke through a leather glove; still have to be careful/w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif). I also have to wear one on my left hand when I'm picking blackberries like I did this morning; hate that job./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Bird

 

[MChalkley]

But the rewards are sweet, Bird!

Mark

 

[gordon]

I spend a good bit of time in the woods and I use both cable and chain this way I get the best of both worlds. Each has it advantages and likewise its disadvantages.
Cable is by far easier to set the log with and is reltively inexpensive, but has a fairly short life span.
Chain is harder to set more expensive but lasts forever.
Nothing better than a flying strand on a cable--ouch--or a quick kink on a chain. I've had a cable rip pretty deep in my chaps that was nice trashed them and the shame of it was they weren't that old.
The cable can cut through leather gloves like butter and it only takes a second it can even put a hurtin on my kevlar gloves if I'm not carefull.
With chain I can cuss a small quick kink sometimes it just doesn't want to act right thats for sure.
So like everything it has it's good and bad points and boils down to what works for you and more importantly what you feel safest with.
Good luck and watch out for the widow makers!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gordon

 

[MChalkley]

Suffice it to say, Gordon, that I don't do nearly as much choker work as you do. I've had very little trouble with kinks in chain, and even when I have, I take comfort in the fact that it's not nearly as bad as having my hand sliced open. /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

Thanks for the insight, Gordon!

Mark

 

[gordon]

Your dad started you out right didn't he pulpwooding right off the bat. No mercey in that I'm sure and I know why you hate the cable so much because working with your dad I bet I could tell you which end of the cable you had. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
They have made many advancements in the wire rope thats used today but nothing is perfect.
Once a cable starts cutting strands I take it out of service and give it to the farmer down the street he loves me for it and I'm glad to be rid of it. But some day you don't have an extra choker around so you have to use the frayed cable or stop what your doing. Which do you think the average person does---just keep on gettin it--thats all you can do if you want to make a living.
Gordon

 

[gordon]

I also ment to say yes a tangled chain beats a cut anything any day of the week.
I must admit most of the tangles in the chain are my fault by sometimes rushing it takes me longer, you ought to see me with a 100 foot extension cord if you want to see something funny ==knot city. It you take the time to lay the chain it will work great for you thats for sure.
Gordon

 

[MChalkley]

Often, I'm not "logging" so much as I am "brushing". I use them to pull up small trees and clear the woods of the downed trees and scrub. That's why I put choker hooks on both ends of a 10' chain. That way I put a grab ring in the center and two bundles of whatever on either side, and drag it all out.

Mark

 

[jyoutz]

Boy, I sure didn't mean to start such a fuss. Let me start by saying that I'm not a logger, I'm a forester who works with loggers and around loggers. My experience is only in western forests (big logs, steep slopes). I think the main reason that loggers prefer them is that dragging the line and setting chokers is far easier and quicker than anything else (time is $). This is particularly true in brush or on steep slopes when pulling a choker at the end of a 100' bull line. I don't really seem to see many chokers wear out or break very often. Most of the people I work with use 5/8 to 3/4" cable. But I did a job myself one time skidding tree-length fuelwood with 1/2" cable chokers and a ford tractor. We probably moved 300+ cords of wood and the chokers were just like new when we were done. Whats really nice about chokers is that by running the winch line (bull line) through several chokers, you can set multiple logs to bunch up into a "turn" by reeling up the winch line. This might wind up as a tangly mess if chains were used this way. I do guess you could rip your hands from a fraying cable, but it doesn't seem to be too common on the jobsite.

 

[MChalkley]

I don't consider what you started "a fuss" at all - more like most every topic on this board: a learning opportunity.

Mark

 

[gordon]

Very well put Mark no fuss here just different experiences that we all learn from.
Gordon

 

[gordon]

I believe I deal with just the opposite smaller logs and if I want to see a steep slope I go to the highway overpass about 10 miles from the house. In a full logging operation the cable is the best way to go you are right time is money.
Some pretty woods out that way I bet I have been out west but never worked out there. What is the average size log you guys are harvesting and what types? I enjoy both logging and forestry its relaxing for me. There are 8 sawmills within 12 miles of the house all small operations most are owned by Amish we have a large amout of the wood harvested used in the area. Down state are the large sawmill and pulpwood operations.
Don't ever feel that you created a fuss just something to learn from and I always can learn something, but I do use both cable and chain while in the woods./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Gordon

 

[jyoutz]

Glad that the learning experiance has been good for us all. To answer your questions Gordon: where I work we manage Ponderosa pine, Douglas fir, white fir, Englemann spruce, and Colorado Blue Spruce. Average log diameter would only be in the 15-20" range, but we still deal with a fair number of 30-40 inchers (I don't get to work much with Pacific coastal Douglas fir 6' in diameter). Mostly on flat ground we don't use chokers at all, but use a rubber-tired skidder with rear hydraulic grapples. This is great when conditions are open and flat. Otherwise the chokers and winch lines are used. I live in northern Arizona and our forests could be described as Rocky Mountain mixed conifer. Your country sure is beautiful also. Last summer we took a trip to Ohio and travelled through Amish country. The hardwoods that you are dealing with are very interesting to me. Completely different forests. In my opinion, the small chokers I described using for my firewood project would work great in your country. Just set a choker around each log or brush pile. Then thread a winchline through each choker end loop and fasten to the last choker. Then when you draw the line back on the drum, all of your material will come together and bunch up for skidding. Sure saves time and work.

 

[gordon]

I got the magazine in the mail today---now that is fast service. Most times it takes a couple weeks at best for something like that to come. I have never seen chain like that I'm going to buy a piece just to try it I'll let you know how it works. Pretty impressive catalog they have some great looking tire chains also.
Gordon

 

[MChalkley]

Gordon - I'll be interested in hearing what you think of it.

Mark

 

[gordon]

After working in the woods and then you go on a trip looking at all the different kinds of woodlots and forests for the different states really gets you thinking doesnt it.
It amazes me how different the forests are but how much alike they are as well.
My area is a mix hard and soft wood more hard than soft in my area. I've been working on my land little by little and in time it will come around. The dumbhead that owned it before me high-grade logged it and what a shame but I knew that when I bought the land so now I have a challange.
I've been cutting out the trash trees now I'm done with cutting till the fall pretty much. What do you think is the best route for me to go ?
Gordon

 

[TomG]

In this area, a wide variety of trees grow. Eventually, the bush becomes mixed or pure conifer stands. Our bush is fairly young and has quite a bit of poplar, birch and alder. We're just going to let it develop as it will.

The thing to think about when taking out trees like poplar and alder is that affects the amount of sun light on the ground. Some conifer saplings are very shade tolerant and some aren't. Taking out, or leaving, the primary growth trees affects the type conifer stands you eventually get. I like white pine myself, and if I was working our bush, I'd want to do things that favour white pines. I probably could get a stand of maple here, but that would take a lot work.

However, just leaving the bush as it is promotes a wide variety of growth, which attracts a wide variety of wild life. Having the wildlife around is a plus for us, even if the young bush is real difficult to walk through.

We also figured out that we don't want to live in the woods. It's dark, closed and buggy. Our camp is on the corner of an old hay field--mostly meadow with bush on one side. The meadow is well on its way of becoming a conifer stand. Lots of 1" - 5" trees, mostly spruce. We probably have to take out the conifers soon if we want to keep the meadow. That's probably all we'll do to work the land except to till a garden plot.

Guess our route is not to work the land much. That route won't put hours on the tractor, but that's OK. If I start suffering from tractor withdrawal, the neighbours probably have plenty for me to do.

Our bush probably was clear-cut at one time. The recent selective cuts I've seen around here are real messy. A lot of the bush is knocked down to get to the few marked trees. Bush just ends up on the ground as dead wood. Bush with a lot of dead wood on the ground isn't great. I'd probably be tempted to take out a lot of the knocked down bush if I'd had a recent selective cut lot. Wait too long, and you can't get to it easily. There are places I imagine are selective cuts from 20 or so years ago. You can't get through them at all from the dead wood still on the ground.

 

[jyoutz]

Gordon, Sounds like you have done quite a bit of work on your land. One thing that really surprises you with forestry is that you can really begin to see changes in forest structure and development in a few short years (even though at the time you start, you think that results will take forever). Gordon, it would be pretty unprofessional of me to give you advice on managing your woodlot, without knowing your management objectives, forest type, site productity, and current condition. But, the best thing you can do is to give the local office of your State Forestry Dept. a call. They have staff extension foresters whose job is to assist private landowners, mostly for free (I did this job in my state for 9 years). They are very helpful and can really steer you in the right direction. They do not have regulatory authority over landowners (except to enforce gross violations of state forest practice laws), they mostly just offer assistance. Good Luck. Jim