CK20 HST geyser of HST oil from dipstick check

[malk315]

To answer BTI's question above -- the hydro steering, MMM deck lift, and loader all seemed to function properly after the geyser event. I was too afraid to try the HST pedal at all for fear of damaging anything w/ possibly too little oil in the system. I put it in neutral, ran the tractor at idle, picked the deck up, loader up, and just steered it while my buddy's Kubota B7510 gear drive tractor towed me by the bucket to my garage If it wasn't so close to dark I would have taken pictures of that event for all to enjoy... and let the kubota guys get their plugs in...

Before the Geyser event w/ tractor cold and level etc., it was reading full or just slightly under full on the dipstick... So it may have been slightly over full... but I'm not really convinced it was.

Also -- after the geyser was stopped with the dipstick, I had to wait about 1/2 hour for my friend to come tow me... About 15 mins into the wait after wiping up as much oil as I could, I unscrewed the red filler cap, and that's when I got the "2-liter bottle of soda" sounding pressure relief and was waiting for fluid to come creeping out of there, but it didn't. I'm wondering how much it would have hissed had I taken the red cap off the filler tube immediately after the geyser stopped -- either no pressure since the geyser provided relief, or more pressure since it might have calmed down a bit since it was able to cool for 15 mins while I was wiping up oil... who knows.

 

[IslandTractor]

I put it in neutral, ran the tractor at idle, picked the deck up, loader up, and just steered it while my buddy's Kubota B7510 gear drive tractor towed me by the bucket to my garage If it wasn't so close to dark I would have taken pictures of that event for all to enjoy... and let the kubota guys get their plugs in...

Please God, don't let the Kubota guys see this thread.

PS: and thank you for sending Neil on vacation for a few days

 

[ERE]

To answer BTI's question above -- the hydro steering, MMM deck lift, and loader all seemed to function properly after the geyser event. I was too afraid to try the HST pedal at all for fear of damaging anything w/ possibly too little oil in the system. I put it in neutral, ran the

Since the HST pedal simply controls the swash plate of a "Waterberry" sytle variable displacement piston pump that rotates continuously when the clutch is out, you shouldn't even run the tractor with the clutch out if there is any doubt as to how much hydraulic oil is in it. That is to say, the rotating pump needs the oil even if it isn't "on stroke" because the HST pedal is pushed.

About 15 mins into the wait after wiping up as much oil as I could, I unscrewed the red filler cap, and that's when I got the "2-liter bottle of soda" sounding pressure relief and was waiting for fluid to come creeping out of there, but it didn't.

In keeping with the over pressurized sump theme perhaps the "soda bottle" pressure relief sound was actually air going into the sump after it had cooled for 15 minutes. i.e. the initial venting dropped pressure, and when it cooled more, pressure in the sump went below atmospheric pressure.

 

[malk315]

The machine takes 4.89 gallons of fluid according to the manual.
I'm guessing 1 - 2 quarts of fluid managed to escape before I got things simmered down.

So I'm hoping that running the tractor for a few mins just to help steer didn't do anything bad -- if something bad did happen, well it better fail catastrophically before the warranty is up because I will be pissed off big time if I have to buy a new transmission for my tractor (and then of course sell it because I will be livid and wont want it anymore).

On the red cap soda bottle stuff -- I made a very strong mental note to pay copious attention to what any air pressure was going to do before loosening the cap. I know with 100% certainty air escaped out from the transmission (just like a soda bottle) indicating the transmission was pressurized above atmospheric pressure.

What will really pressurize me also is if the dealer just drains it and re-fills to find no root cause and it happens again. He stated he doesn't know how a CK20 is supposed to vent... I've been tempted to contact Kioti directly to find out for myself because I'm simply a very thorough guy and want stuff done right... we'll see as I'm obviously on the edge of my seat too...

Dealer coming to get it tomorrow early eve. I think he plans to use the HST to load it on to the trailer. Do you guys think if he is able to load it on w/o adding oil (I told him to bring oil, not sure if he plans to bring any), that there's enough in there that running it w/ clutch out doesn't do any damage?

I really wish I had thought about stepping on the clutch while getting it back to the garage... It just makes me more disappointed and I continue to wonder what pre-mature death of any components in the drive train may have been introduced and when any such pre-mature death will be realized. Because it's my tractor, it will die the day after the warranty runs out. This really sucks...

 

[IslandTractor]

What will really pressurize me also is if the dealer just drains it and re-fills to find no root cause and it happens again. He stated he doesn't know how a CK20 is supposed to vent... ..

If I recall correctly we have the same dealer. If so the guys you dealt with by phone are the sales guys not the mechanics. I am pretty sure the mechanics at the dealership could answer the question.

 

[malk315]

Island-

Yes -- we do share the same dealer, and I really like those guys.
It's Tom who I've dealt with, although I dealt with Mike (owner) about a year before my purchase and after being to every Kioti dealer w/in 50 miles of me, interaction w/ Mike is the reason I selected HarvardPower. Mike was very honest about everything and answered every question well. I also liked how they have an impressive inventory of Gehl excavators and I figured even though they're a bit new w/ Kiotis (I think 2 or 3 years now), their experience w/ serious Gehl machinery would apply to serious tractors.

Anyway -- I'm just frustrated and a bit of a control freak... I want my machine to be tip top and I'm just bummin' this happened. Hopefully the guys at harvard can take care of it and work with Kioti if need be to make things correct.

Maybe I'm worrying about something that is really nothing to worry about... we'll see.

Thanks to everyone's replies so far -- Tom will be by tomorrow night to pick up the machine (which I'm glad because the massive rainstorm we're getting right now will be over. Tom did say he wanted to pick it up because it was he who I explained everything to over the phone and Tom wants to make sure the collection of the machine to take to the dealer is done right (perhaps having oil on hand or whatever else (winch) to get the tractor onto a trailer. I'm sure Jeff would be thrilled to bring the B7510 by to pull the CK20 onto the trailer !!

 

[malk315]

Tom from HarvardPower came by tonight to pick up the machine.

The tractor has been sitting in the garage since sunday (3 days) and I pulled the dipstick to see the level of oil -- well it didn't geyser, but it pushed out and down the tube to create a puddle about 8 inches on the floor with the stick out for only a few seconds. I then unscrewed the red cap to have a bit of 2 liter soda bottle pressure relief.

Tom fired it up and picked up the deck and bucket no prob and backed it on the trailer under it's own power.

After he shut it down, we checked the dipstick -- nothing came out, red filler cap revealed no pressure. So it takes a while of operating time to build up pressure, and it must be that the oil itself in the tranny and such helps keep the pressure sealed in there... the dipstick doesn't seal well enough -- it's got oil right at the top when under pressure and gravity probably keeps it from overflowing a great amount. -- i.e. the pressure seems to build all on the "air" that's directly under the red filler cap and down the tube to the top level of the oil -- that air is being compressed and builds up the pressure. Tractor relieves itself (much like any guy would on a tree in the woods!! ) by taking a leak out the dipstick tube -- nice stream when pressure is high enough -- showers the dashboard real well

So Tom instilled confidence in me -- they're going to call Kioti, and he's going to have Frank the mechanic take care of this.

It does make me feel pretty good that Tom was at the shop by himself today (others on vacation etc.) and still came down after close to get the machine in the dark and get it up there. Frank will be back tomorrow, so hopefully he'll get a chance to get the ball rolling on diagnosing / fixing it.

Will update as I hear progress. Dealer is right near my work, so I may take a spin by tomorrow at lunch just to meet Frank and see what his thoughts are on it.

 

[IslandTractor]

Tell Tom I'm still waiting for my zerks!

 

[malk315]

That's funny -- he did say "You know that guy "Island" he wants new grease fittings (Zerks)" -- he pointed out the ones on the loader that are recessed in there...

So he knows about it.

I'm pretty psyched now... very much on the edge of my seat as to see what the result will be. Very happy to hear they plan to call Kioti and go over it with them etc.

One reason they were short handed -- I guess they had to let go the girl who works behind the counter there (I never knew here name) very nice, but I guess just didn't seem to be effective the 9 months she's been there...

If I can get a restored faith in Kioti, I would love the opportunity to open a dealership in Sutton or Millbury area of Mass near the Pike / 146 area across the street from "146 supply center" -- they are one of the biggest JD dealers around. Could certainly sell a bunch of orange tractors for $5K less than similar john deere (CK20 caliber tractors). That green paint is expensive. They've had their share of problems too -- new HST designs where a couple tractors went through walls / garage doors because the HST wouldn't stop -- big safety hazard and was recalled etc...

 

[IslandTractor]

That's funny -- he did say "You know that guy "Island" he wants new grease fittings (Zerks)" -- he pointed out the ones on the loader that are recessed in there...

Actually, the ones I am having trouble with are on the front steering rams, two of the buggers dead center under the front of the tractor. I haven't actually tried to clean them out yet (maybe this weekend) but after learning from Highbeam that they seem to be a non standard size I figured I'd get Tom to send me some replacements just in case.