CK20 serviced at Upper Valley Swansea, NH no glow starting fixed and more

   / CK20 serviced at Upper Valley Swansea, NH no glow starting fixed and more #11  
malk315 said:
Hey Derek-

The videos here now are from over a year ago when the glow system was working perfectly.

I have yet to record a video of what it's doing now. Perhaps this evening since the weather will be comparable. Stay tuned!
Ahh, ok!
If you do, remember to put the throttle up a little. Even the owners manual says to "Set the throttle to about half way."
I tried to upload a picture of the owners manual page from my phone but the app keeps crashing...
 
   / CK20 serviced at Upper Valley Swansea, NH no glow starting fixed and more #12  
Mine smokes and runs ruff when I cold start also. I put my throttle up around half way and it seems to clear up pretty quick. Waiting to see what is the problem with yours as mine will probably be the same. I keep mine parked in an unheated garage too.
 
   / CK20 serviced at Upper Valley Swansea, NH no glow starting fixed and more
  • Thread Starter
#13  
Alright -- tonight it is 39 degrees out and my previous video it was colder -- 36 degrees. What I said in the video is wrong regarding temperatures!

On the first video above cold start it takes about 10-15 seconds for the engine to smooth out and run just fine. In the video below it takes a solid 45 seconds before the machine smooths out and that last cylinder is firing every time. You can hear what sounds like one cylinder firing, blow smoke for a while, fire, blow some more smoke, then fire all the time.

Early on after turning it over it's fighting the rest of the engine because the RPMs come up so much slower than the other video where I know everything is working.

To my surprise -- the glow is doing something. I'm pretty convinced one or two glow plugs are not doing they're job. I hope you guys can see the difference too.

What we know now is it's definitely not the glow plug relay or ignition switch anymore -- when glow is activated after warm you can hear it making a difference.

So I'm very curious of your opinions. If you compare the two videos -- something is just not right in the second one. If glow plugs aren't ridiculously expensive I'm of the opinion of just changing all three. Here's the link to the video:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CozEQJWVew]CK20 Cold start suspect one or more glow plugs not working - YouTube[/ame]
 
   / CK20 serviced at Upper Valley Swansea, NH no glow starting fixed and more #14  
Sorry but if your not going to start it the right way, why not re-read the manual first then make videos.
The smoke did not seem excessive considering your trying to start it with the throttle closed and your not holding the glow plug switch long enough to make a difference after it starts. Quickly flipping it on and off will do nothing. They don't heat up instantly.

Next time it's cold, try this:
-Raise the throttle to approx 1/4-1/2 open.
-Turn key to glow plug position and wait for glow plug light to turn off.
-Turn key to crank and as soon as it catches, release and turn the switch back to the glow plug position and hold it for 6-8 seconds.
-Release key to ON position and allow to warm until temp gauge is at least 1/4 up.
 
   / CK20 serviced at Upper Valley Swansea, NH no glow starting fixed and more #15  
I don't see a problem with starting at idle. I always start at idle.
But the glow plugs do take several seconds to start getting hot enough help.
Just flipping the glow plugs on and off for 1/2 a second is not going to do any good.
 
   / CK20 serviced at Upper Valley Swansea, NH no glow starting fixed and more
  • Thread Starter
#16  
Hey Derek-

I am holding the glow on after starting -- re-watch the video -- I annotated both of them w/ youtube's easy labelling feature. I'm doing the 4 steps you list except in your step #3 I hold glow on for at least 10 seconds instead of 6 to 8 (perhaps what confused you is I put the video on the exhaust for a bit and then come back to the dash and you can see I'm still holding the glow).

At 46 seconds into the video after waiting for a full glow cycle where the light goes out -- I crank it over and let the key back to glow to keep it on rather than letting the key back. While still keeping the glow going I show the smoke coming out for a bit and then put the camera back on the dash -- that entire time the glow is on (yellow light lit). 10 seconds later at 56 seconds in I let glow off and only at that point do I put it back on to show it doesn't change anything. almost a minute later when it finally seems smooth I activate the glow and you can hear it changes things a bit -- before (like in the older video) doing this (activate glow after engine smooths out) would make it want to quit.

In my first video after crank over I do the same thing -- don't turn the key all the way back and let glow keep going -- then I show you can control it by taking it off (and engine gets rougher) and put it back on and it runs better. Only about 10 seconds on that ** colder ** day was needed of glow before it smoothed out. On the post sometime back of that video you replied stating you use the same start procedure -- I'm doing nothing different in both videos here -- the only thing I didn't do that you do is set the throttle up at least 1/4.

I kept wanted to keep the throttle down for this video since my first video kept it down -- so I could compare apples to apples. First video took 10-15 seconds to run good. This video took 45 seconds (with 10 seconds of continous glow after crank (w/ full glow cycle w/ engine off before crank) where the 10 seconds post crank of glow seemed to not make a difference).

Couple reasons I don't put the throttle up: Many people have posted here they don't put the throttle up and everything is fine, and also I don't think having it run to higher RPMS at start is good since oil isn't going to be up into the engine (metal on metal). But I'm certainly willing to try starting at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle as manual says and I've read plenty of people on here who give it throttle for start.

All I know is something is different w/ cold starts -- they used to be like the first video all the time -- a little bit of black smoke virtually no blue/white smoke. Running smooth rather quickly. From 2006 through 2009 I stored it in an unheated shed and starting it in single digit cold was no problem. Now there's tons of smoke -- you can't see it well in this video because it's at night and the camera didn't pick up all of it that was out in the driveway -- and it takes 3 to 4 times longer to smooth out -- and this is in a garage attached to my house in 39 degree weather.

If it's cold this weekend, I'll roll it out into the cold and start it in daylight so the smoke will be visible -- then maybe you'll agree something isn't right when I fill my entire front yard with billowing white smoke that it never did before. I'll also put the throttle up at least 1/4 as now I'm curious to see how that effects it -- I'm thinking since it will let more fuel in I'll fill my yard and my neighbor's yard with smoke as opposed to just my own.... I know something is different -- it's like night and day -- maybe the videos don't make it apparent, but something isn't right in my opinion or I'm going crazy... if it was your machine that you are used to how it starts for 6 years and something suddenly behaved different maybe then you would understand...

I've done plenty of work on gasoline engines, but have zero experience with diesel. This is why I use the dealer for service... Since you are not convinced anything is wrong, now I'm wondering if the dealer will believe me...

Don't take offense to my post -- I've always enjoyed reading your posts as well as many others... I'm a bit on edge because something is definitely up with the machine. I do appreciate your feedback.
 
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   / CK20 serviced at Upper Valley Swansea, NH no glow starting fixed and more
  • Thread Starter
#17  
Vince-

Looks like you interpreted the same as Derek.

I did a full cycle w/ engine off and at 46 seconds into the video I crank over, and keep the glow on until 56 seconds in and that 10 seconds of glow ** after crankover ** is not helping at all like my first video. My first video I do about 5 seconds of glow after crankover, let glow off and it runs rougher, hold it on for a few more seconds and you can see it smooth and make a big difference. Then after it's off and smoothed I activate it again and it almost quits... In this video I turn it on and off briefly after 10 full seconds of glow on post crank because when things are right you can hear it change things when activating once running. Towards the end after it smooths out, I activate the glow for a bit again and you can tell it makes a difference (you can hear the RPMs change and this is how I now know the glow circuit is at least doing something and the relay and keyswitch are fine). I think since it hadn't smoothed out yet after 10 seconds of post crank glow (56-60 seconds into the video) the short activation I did doesn't show anything noticable...

You guys must think I'm nuts... but something is up. We'll see what this weekend brings when I have more time to check things out.
 
   / CK20 serviced at Upper Valley Swansea, NH no glow starting fixed and more
  • Thread Starter
#18  
I annotated both videos w/ notes on what's going on -- youtube is great.
Look at the first video in post #8 and then look at the video in post #13 above to make a good comparison.

Now it's very clear it's exactly Derek's 4 step plan, but I have the throttle at idle and I'm doing 10 seconds of post crank forced glow instead of his suggested 6-8 seconds.

Derek / others -- how much smoke do you get after your 6-8 seconds of post crank forced glow? Mine has always been essentially nothing except for recently.

In the first video 10 seconds after crank smoke is done and engine is running smoother.
20 seconds after I activate glow and it wants to quit.

The second video above 10 seconds after crank engine isn't running well and spews smoke for more than 1/2 minute later. After letting the glow off I activate briefly a couple more times to compare to the first video where this action makes it want to quit. I think Derek and Vince were thinking this was my method of running the glow for cold start -- not the case!!!

Point is this 10 seconds of glow in first video is night and day compared to 10 seconds of glow in second video.
Second video it is warmer out by 3 degrees and machine has been kept in same garage.

I'm convinced one or two glow plugs are not doing their job and takes 45 seconds at least in these weather conditions before smoke spewing is cleared up...

I hope this is clear to everyone now -- should be rather clear with the annotations in the videos...
Yes I'm long winded ... sorry. It gets worse the more annoyed I get.
 
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   / CK20 serviced at Upper Valley Swansea, NH no glow starting fixed and more #19  
I recently had the same issue with my ck30hst ,noticed it was firing on 2 cyl then the 3rd would start to kick in and eventually fire off,lots of smoke,etc.

Turned out to be a bad glow plug, was pretty easy to diagnose, first check to see you have power to the glow plug bar, if so, then procceed to remove the first 2 small nuts off the connecting power strip to the front 2 glow plugs, then with an ohm meter test the resistance to each plug, remove the dead plug,install a new one ,reconnect and your golden\!
BTW, plu was $39 up here in Canada

here is the link http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/222959-ck30-cold-start.html
 
   / CK20 serviced at Upper Valley Swansea, NH no glow starting fixed and more #20  
Always good to read/hear about thumbs up dealer. :)
Thanks for sharing pics and videos.
 

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