CK2610 stalling: fuel cap vent

[Consumerbot7369]

I've never owned a tractor before, and it's been a learning curve. Got this thing less than a year ago, and put about 65 hours on it, mostly mowing with a flail. Yesterday, I had occasion to fire it up to rescue the 4x4 pickup my son managed to get buried in the mud. I didn't mind--figured it was due to be run, anyhow, been parked for about a month.

After hooking up a chain to the truck, as I tried to pull it out, the engine first bogged and recovered as I backed off the pedal, then stalled out completely when I gave it another go. Started right up, revved up to speed, but stalled again as I started pulling hard. My kid fired up the truck and used its power to assist, and with the combined power, we managed to get the truck out of the mud. I hopped out of the Kioti, and when I unscrewed the fuel cap, heard an audible hissing sound. I was thinking that it seemed to be acting fuel starved, and I thought I'd peek in the tank to see if the fuel had gelled, even though it was fairly warm day in the 40's.

After a bit of searching and reading, I'm guessing the fuel cap vent is the culprit. Figured I'd share my story here. Feels kinda weird to be having that kind of trouble less than a year in.

Oh, and a question: it shouldn't even be possible to stall the engine with the HST in low range, right? Shouldn't the relief kick in first?

 

[jimglassford]

Try the same type of activity with the fuel cap loose so it can suck air. Diagnose what is happening, don't just start making changes until you resolve the issue.

 

[Robin Veerman]

Try cleaning the cap vent, take it apart if possible, or use compressed air. If you heard a hiss of in-rush air I’m thinking that you’ve found the culprit. Maybe the mud-daubers found a hole to plug…

 

[Consumerbot7369]

@jimglassford --
That sucking sound when I took the fuel cap off seems like a dead giveaway that the fuel tank was under vacuum, but I definitely want to confirm somehow. Not gonna get my truck stuck in the mud again intentionally, though!

@Robin Veerman --
I'll have a look. The mud daubers get into everything around here!

 

[Thomas]

Oh, and a question: it shouldn't even be possible to stall the engine with the HST in low range, right? Shouldn't the relief kick in first?

Not really sure what you mean...transmission?
Not enough RPM's etc. can cause stall oh some HST.

 

[Consumerbot7369]

I’m not really sure what I mean, either.

I guess I thought that with RPMs up, and no accessories (PTO, AC, FEL) in operation, I shouldn’t even be able to stall out. But I’m still learning about hydraulics, and evidently have a lot to learn yet. I was thinking that there’d be an over pressure relief that would keep the HST from overburdening the motor.

I just walked out to where the tractor was parked overnight, and got another loud hiss as I removed the fuel cap. Don’t know if that’s normal or not, but I fooled around a bit: Revved up, engaged the diff lock and front assist and then tried to push over a huge tree, and the engine bogged and died. Tried same with the fuel cap loose, no difference. So I guess it’s just normal behavior?

 

[3gunr]

If you are in low range your tires should break loose before you stall the engine, Something sounds off to me

 

[Sheldon Hamblin]

I've never owned a tractor before, and it's been a learning curve. Got this thing less than a year ago, and put about 65 hours on it, mostly mowing with a flail. Yesterday, I had occasion to fire it up to rescue the 4x4 pickup my son managed to get buried in the mud. I didn't mind--figured it was due to be run, anyhow, been parked for about a month.

After hooking up a chain to the truck, as I tried to pull it out, the engine first bogged and recovered as I backed off the pedal, then stalled out completely when I gave it another go. Started right up, revved up to speed, but stalled again as I started pulling hard. My kid fired up the truck and used its power to assist, and with the combined power, we managed to get the truck out of the mud. I hopped out of the Kioti, and when I unscrewed the fuel cap, heard an audible hissing sound. I was thinking that it seemed to be acting fuel starved, and I thought I'd peek in the tank to see if the fuel had gelled, even though it was fairly warm day in the 40's.

After a bit of searching and reading, I'm guessing the fuel cap vent is the culprit. Figured I'd share my story here. Feels kinda weird to be having that kind of trouble less than a year in.

Oh, and a question: it shouldn't even be possible to stall the engine with the HST in low range, right? Shouldn't the relief kick in first?

It depends.
I have the same tractor with fluid in the tires, and a grader blade on the back.
I can tell you from experience, pulling out a pickup, if at full pto rpm, in low range, chains on the tires, my tires will start to spin if I slowly engage the pedal, unless the truck is slowly driving without spinning in the same direction. I think this is normal.

 

[Consumerbot7369]

If you are in low range your tires should break loose before you stall the engine, Something sounds off to me

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, especially considering how muddy it was.

 

[Consumerbot7369]

It depends.
I have the same tractor with fluid in the tires, and a grader blade on the back.
I can tell you from experience, pulling out a pickup, if at full pto rpm, in low range, chains on the tires, my tires will start to spin if I slowly engage the pedal, unless the truck is slowly driving without spinning in the same direction. I think this is normal.

Thanks for that feedback! I have no fluid in the tires (yet), just a flail mower on the back. Sounds like you're getting more traction than me, and your motor is able to power through it?

 

[Midniteoyl]

Do you have Linked Pedal? Was it on?


Also, you *can* stall out an HST. I have stalled my 3510 before (starts 4:34 into video):

 

[Midniteoyl]

If you caught what happened, he buried the HST pedal which is not what you want to do. Its *not* a throttle pedal. When it starts to bog, let up on the pedal for more power, don't floor it.

 

[Consumerbot7369]

Do you have Linked Pedal? Was it on?


Also, you *can* stall out an HST. I have stalled my 3510 before (starts 4:34 into video):

Yes, I do have linked pedal, and yes, it was on the first time it died on me. I turned it off, and manually throttled up to PTO 540 RPM (thinking it might be somewhere close to max torque), then eased into the pedal, had it die again.

I think I now understand that if the motor (via the hydro pump) is being tasked to do something impossible, it'll just die. Versus an automatic transmission in a car, where the power is transmitted via fluid, but in a totally different way (propeller/impeller) that would prevent a stall.

Thanks for your patience and input, everyone!

 

[S854]

I'm new to this HST thing also... and have "killed" my CK2610 on more than one occasion with HST pedal "misuse"... first time I was attempting to fill the FEL bucket with road mix... as I dug into the pile the engine began to bog, so, like the novice I am, I pressed the HST pedal down farther (just like I would do with the clutch pedal on my other tractor... press it down, the clutch disengages and the engine recovers)... that doesn't happen with the HST pedal and I promptly killed the engine...

The way I view it now is the HST pedal operation is opposite of a gear transmission/clutch... When the HST pedal is not applied, that is akin to a clutch pedal being full depressed (transmission in gear)... there's no force applied to drive the wheels...

When you begin to let out the clutch (or begin to press on the HST pedal in our case) the engine is still producing its full power and the tractor just begins to move... let the clutch out further (press the HST pedal down further) and the tractor begins to move faster... UNLESS... you're in the wrong gear or asking the tractor to move something beyond it's capabilities... then the engine begins to bog and will eventually die unless you press in the clutch (release the HST pedal)...

HST is "backwards" to those of us used to driving a clutch/geared tractor... try to wrap your head around it and pretty soon it'll become second nature....

 

[Username Taken]

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