CK30/35 HST problems?

[jlbrewer]

This is my first post, although I have been reading for a while now.

I have been looking/pricing Kiotis, Kubotas, and Mahindras (have local dealers for all three within 10 miles of home).

I like the Kioti because of price, I also like the Kubota 3400 HST for its smooth operation.

I could get the Kioti HST cheaper than the Kubota, but my dealer is absolutely against the HST's. He very much tries to steer you away from the HST and toward the gear tractor, to the point that I'm wondering if there are some known issues with Kioti's HST system.

Has anyone had any experience with this, otherwise why would he not want to sell me a more expensive tractor?

 

[IslandTractor]

The Kioti CK30/35 HST transmissions have been virtually problem free. I cannot recall a post where there were serious problems. Sounds to me like your Kioti dealer has a gear tractor he is trying to move.

The Kioti CK is a "luxe" tractor compared to the Kubota L series. More like the Kubota Grand L in features.

 

[jlbrewer]

Actually, he would have to order either one at this time. He swears by the "loss of power" in HST's and says "when I dig into something I want the tires to spin." He also deals Cub/Yanmars and says if I really want a HST he would recommend the Cub (Way more money, though). I have known this guy a long time as he was a tire dealer long before he was a tractor dealer, and I have traded with him for years on tires. He just has a deep grudge against the HST.

Thanks for the reply. Any more would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Capt. Bob]

He swears by the "loss of power" in HST's and says "when I dig into something I want the tires to spin."

My dealer almost says the same thing. He adds that while the HST's he has sold are almost problem free. He adds that most of them are sold to people that are hobbiest or people that want to let their wife are kids drive the tractor. He says the serious farmers almost always buy the gear.

 

[Steve_Miller]

I was under this impression that HST was 'bad' for years. I switched to HST a year or two ago (they go by so fast now I lose count) and asked myself why I didn't switch twenty plus years ago when I bought my first tractor. As far as the power loss goes, how many people are using there tractor at maximum power for most of the time for this to even be a problem? Yes, there are tasks that are better suited for one type of drive system over the other, but you just have to base your decision on your tractor's tasks. I'm just a homeowner with 7+acres, no farming and have not regretted for one second getting an HST. It is actually much much much more convienient for the tasks I usually do, ie...snowplowing, blowing, grading, small amount of tilling, general landscaping, etc.etc.etc

Steve

 

[IXLR8]

I have the CK30HST, I agree with everything Steve said. I have my rear tires loaded and I have managed to spin all 4 tires when doing some digging with the FEL, so I am not sure if dealers comment along those lines is valid.

 

[Dmace]

Your dealer must be talking about rear PTO hp, yes you do lose 1 or 2 more hp to the PTO than a gear tractor but not to the ground. I test drove both a gear and HST tractor of the same exact model and options and the gear tractor would stall out while driving into a pile of dirt rather than spin tires. With the HST however, you could get into the pile and slowly let off the pedal, as the infinite gears get lower you get more power and that tractor would dig and dig into the pile before finally spinning the tires.

With a gear tractor you are limited to 4 or 5 gears and cannot adjust it at all. With an HST you have an infinite amount of gear ratios and can always find the right one for the job.

 

[mrutkaus]

A retired Navy Judge, a neighbor in the '60's, Jim Brough was his name, once pointed to his Cub Cadet hydro transmission tractor and said "once you try one of these transmissions, you will never go back."

It's proved true in my limited non-farm experience. Especially as you get older, it's just one less thing to think about and more attention to what you are actually doing.

Mike

 

[jlbrewer]

Thanks for all the input. I am still waiting to hear back from him on a quote for a CK35 HST w/FEL. I'm really leaning toward the Kubota unless I can find a good used Kioti for substantial savings. With all the shopping I've been doing lately, it seems as though the Kubota's have a little better resale value, and they've been building hydros longer than anybody.

 

[IslandTractor]

Thanks for all the input. I am still waiting to hear back from him on a quote for a CK35 HST w/FEL. I'm really leaning toward the Kubota unless I can find a good used Kioti for substantial savings. With all the shopping I've been doing lately, it seems as though the Kubota's have a little better resale value, and they've been building hydros longer than anybody.

I think it is true that JD and Kubota have better resale as measured by proportion of the purchase or list price. Similar to Honda and Toyota in the car world. However, the downside is that you pay a lot more for those tractors to begin with. If you look at the cost of owning a tractor for five years or so, making reasonable estimates of what you could sell it for at the end, I think you'll see that the Kiotis, Mahindras, etc fare well in comparison.

I bought a CK20 TLB, used it for two years and then traded it in on a larger tractor after establishing the cash purchase price of the new tractor (i.e. the trade was not inflated). Depreciation amounted to just over 14%. Not bad.

You also should think about the bang for the buck comparison as that is where the premium brands fall down. The Kioti CK series for example have quite a lot of important features not found on the Kubota L (but are found on the Grand L). In doing a feature to feature comparison (rather than straight horsepower) for my current tractor against Kubota and JD equivalents, there was about a $6000-7000 savings with the Kioti (about 25%). That makes up for quite a bit of the differential in resale.

Final point: I bought from a dealer who discounts. There are definitely a number of small Kioti dealers who tend to ask close to list. A discounted Kubota/JD is likely to be a better value than a list price Kioti. If you are within striking range of one of the bigger Kioti dealers try to get a price from them before making your decision.

 

[jlbrewer]

Thanks again for all of the input. I have decided on a used Kioti CK30 HST that I am going to close the deal on this week. I believe this will be the perfect size tractor for what I need (I would have loved to find a good CK35, but at this price, I couldn't turn it down). Hopefully all will go well.

 

[LeTempt]

I grew up on a farm in IL and operated all kinds of equipment like tractors, combines, bull dozers, backhoes...but never had a HST. We bought a new CK30HST with FEL on 11/11/08 and finally had an opportunity to use it today. We are buying 3 acres and wanted to use the tractor to improve the lot and use it for lots of different little tasks. Today we (me and my wife) used it to pull out trees and I used to FEL to dig up and push down some trees. For about the first 1/2 hour I had a little trouble getting used to the single pedal HST control, but after that I found it very easy to use. All of the controls seem very well laid out. The single pedal HST was the only feature that concerned me about the Kioti (or Bobcat), but I am very happy with how it works in practice. For FEL work the HST is PERFECT. It is much faster than having to clutch and shift, I could not be happier with the HST. If you were doing a bunch of mowing where you just put it in gear and do not change speed or direction, the gear shift might be better, but you always have the cruise control on the HST.

I did stall it out a couple times today, but that was mostly operator induced and I was not running it very hard. The operator's manual tells you to take it easy during the first 50 hours, so I did not run it above 2,000 RPM. My wife loves the HST transmission with the single pedal. She did not grow up around equipment (city girl!!), but within about 2 minutes she was operating it like a pro. She is not good with the FEL yet, but that will just take some practice.

Our chihuahua puppy even loves they tractor. She road inside my wife's jacket for a couple hours this afternoon and was not scared even a little by the tractor (she is pretty timid like most chihuahuas). The tractor is nice and quiet and very smooth. With 4 hours of work time on the hour meter, I am happy so far.

Jeff
Enterprise, AL
Kioti CK30HST