CK30HST Wiring Disconnected

[LeTempt]

When I got my new 2008 CK30HST on Tuesday I found out that the headlights would not come on. Hoped that it would be something simple like a blown fuse, but no luck there. The hazard lights and blinkers work as they are supposed to, but neither the headlights or amber tail lights come on when the headlight switch is turned to the low or high beam position. The instrument panel back lighting comes on when the headlight switch is turned to the low beam and high beam position. The brake lights also work as they are supposed to. The high beam indicator light on the instrument panel does not come on when the headlight switch is turned to the high beam position.

As I looked over the tractor I found several wires that were disconnected. I did read about a few of these wires in earlier discussions about installing work lights on the back of the tractor. Unfortunately (as I stated in my earlier post) I am 240 miles from the deal where I bought the tractor. I did contact them to describe the problem, but they did not have an obvious solution. The service technician called me to let me know that he had contacted Kioti, but everyone in the department that he needed to talk to was off until next Monday.

Slide 1 - underside of operator platform below brake pedals.
Slide 2 - below right side of SMV emblem
Slide 3 - below left side of SMV emblem
Slide 4 - above right 3 point hitch arm
Slide 5 - in front of clutch pedal

I was looking at the wire colors with a flashlight, so it was hard to tell the difference between a white stripe and a gray stripe. Pretty sure the 2 connectors above the 3 point hitch on the right side under the seat pan are as they are supposed to be (slide 4), but I am surprised there is not some kind of a plug cover on the large round connector.

Should these wires be disconnected? Could any of these be causing my headlights to not work? or causing the indicator/warning lights on the instrument panel to (apparently) not be functioning properly (ref my post earlier this evening)?

Thanks in advance for your advice and assistance!!

Jeff
Enterprise, AL

 

[Gittyup]

What you need is a shop manual that has the schematics in it. Wish I had it to help you with. Someone who does hopefully will chime in.

But as a wild guess, if there is a relay that actuates the head/tail lights, that would be the first place I'd look since all other lights appear to be working. Most of the relays are under the hood on the back firewall, I believe. The high beam indicator is probably tied in directly with the highbeam circuit. So, it's no surprise it isn't coming on too.

I'd be surprised if any of those you have photographed is the culprit. But, it sure seems to be an aweful lot of loose wires in there. I'd bet the black male one's are direct shorts to ground. It illustrates that all of them should be better protected, at least with some dielectric grease, and perhaps some mastic.

Given your distance from the dealer, you might want to invest in a manual.

 

[Avondale]

I am unsure if this applies to your model but my DK 35 has a white connector plug that must be disconnected to take the front nose off the tractor hood. Could be someone took off to show battery compt or clean rad and did not re-connect?

 

[kioticork]

I have a new CK30 that I purchased 3 weeks ago. I had a similar problem with the front and rear lights. My problem was that every time i turned the lights on, it was blowing the 20 amp fuse.
I am located only 20 minutes from my dealer, Rodick Farm Machinery in
Schroon Lake, NY, and they came out and after following all of the wires, and checking/applying dielectric grease to all connections, no more problem. We figured it to be either a little moisture, or something was not quite connected.
I am impressed with the tractor as well as the service from Rodick's.

Cork

 

[IslandTractor]

Jeff, sorry to hear about your electrical problem. It does sound like you'd need an electrical schema diagram to make much sense of it but as you have posted very clear photos it's possible one of the TBN active dealers or their mechanics could help. Try a PM to Rick Wallace directing him to your post and see if his guys can give you an answer.

Unless you are needing to work at night right now I guess at least you can use the tractor over the weekend. Nothing worse than a new tool that doesn't work.

 

[MichiganIron]

Jeff, the plugs in your pictures do not appear to be anything you need to worry about.

Please check the following, In order:

Fuse / fusebox under the right side of the instrument cowl.

The headlight relays are mounted under the hood near the battery on the right side of the tractor. Make sure a relay plugs are not loose. The 2 relays closest to the grill are the low and high beam relays.

There is a white plug under the hood near the back of the engine. It connects to hood light harness to the main wiring harness. Make sure that plug is not loose.

Continuity check the combination switch.

Check all ground connections.

Hope that helps...

 

[Steve_Miller]

1. Don't know
2. Bullet connectors are rear work light (label on fuse panel) Connector, can't remember
3. Double spade connector is 'customer use' as labeled in fuse panel
4. Round connector is (I assume) for a cab. Both turn signals and park lamps plus a ground. Capped plug I don't remember that one either.
5. Don't know

Hope this helps now or later if you want to add lights.

Steve

 

[PAB_OH]

4. Round connector is (I assume) for a cab. Steve

I believe the round connector is for the trailer plug. Euro machines have these on them a lot of times. I've been kicking around the idea of hooking mine up. I have no reason to do so other than to be able to say I did it.

 

[LeTempt]

Went over to the hangar and got my multi-meter today to do a little troubleshooting with the headlights. Without an electrical diagram it took me longer than it should have. Thanks to Mighigan Iron for some troubleshooting tips.

- The fuse was good.

- The headlight relays were secure.

- White plug was secure.

- Switch checked out fine.

- Grounds were all fine.

Then I started digging in with my own troubleshooting.

- Both headlight high and low beams work when I applied power directly to the bulbs.

- All wires check out just fine.

- I am getting 12 volts to the relays (orange wire on front relay for the low beams and brown wire with stripe on the aft relay for the high beams)....BUT I am not getting 12 volts out of the relays to the headlights (white wire on the front relay for the low beams and brown wire on the aft relay for the high beams). The relays are clicking when the headlight switch is turned on.

What are the chances that 2 relays are bad right out of the dealership on a brand new tractor? I have probably 10 or 15 of these relays that I got at the salvage yard...but the chances of me finding them are slim to none. We are in the process of moving from MO to AL and I can't find anything.

Contrary to my initial post, I believe my tail lights are working as they are supposed to. The red lights are on dim when the headlights are in the low and high beam position and when I press on the brake pedal they come on bright (just like a car). The amber lights work as the turn signals with the hazard lights. I had the parking brake on when I checked things out the first time and of course the red lights were on, but I did not think the running lights were working - glad I figured that out without any work.

As I was crawling around the tractor, I found 3 more groups of wires that were disconnected. They might not be needed or used for anything, but I am disappointed that they are just hanging out in the breeze with no protection at all. Couldn't they at least have put a wrap of electrical tape around the wire to keep me from wondering if they are used for anything?

Going out to put it to work tomorrow for the first time!!!

Jeff
Enterprise, AL

 

[Gittyup]

Did you check that the relay control voltages (not the relay switching voltage) were being actuated when you switch on the lights? Sounds like they are getting this voltage since you hear clicking, but worth checking anyway. It is unlikely that both are bad. It might be that they are wired in series or that one enables the other: you need the low beam relay before the highbeam relay will work. Again just a guess. The control voltage behavior might be a good indicator of what is really going on here.

 

[LeTempt]

Gittyup,

I am not sure I understand what you suggest I try with the relays, can you describe how to check this?

Thanks,
Jeff
Enterprise, AL

CK30HST...how with 10 hours on the hour meter (it came with 6 from the dealer)

 

[MichiganIron]

Jeff,

We can get you the color coding tomorrow at the shop. You are getting signal voltage to the relays, we need to check if you are getting base voltage on the relay. The base is constant, and should be at the relay without signal voltage.

Our guess is that you do not have base voltage at the relays. Both relays being bad is unlikely.

We'll give you the color coding for the base voltage wires tomorrow.

 

[MichiganIron]

Jeff,

The base voltage wires at the relays are green. The Orange and Brown are signal voltage.

If you don't have base voltage at the relays, check for voltage next at the fuse box. You may just have a loose harness plug. If you start at the fusebox, we should be able to pinpoint the disconnect.

Hope this helps.

 

[Gittyup]

Gittyup,

I am not sure I understand what you suggest I try with the relays, can you describe how to check this?

Thanks,
Jeff
Enterprise, AL

CK30HST...how with 10 hours on the hour meter (it came with 6 from the dealer)

MichiganIron is talking about the same thing. Since they have access to documentation and more specific experience with the particulars, I'll stop guessing. They'll get you straightened out. Probably is something simple like a loose connection.

But, in general on relays: There are at least two "signals" to each relay. One is the signal being switched by the relay (the power to your headlights in this case). The other is the control signal that causes the relay to switch open and closed. Sometimes the control signal is a lower voltage, like say 5 Volts. Sometimes it's the same, like 12 V. The dash light switch initiates the control voltage to the relay causing the relay to close, thereby sending the 12 V to your headlights. One of the reasons that relays are used is because they can handle much higher currents than small switches. They also add a layer of safety. To verify a relay is bad, both are tested. if you want to understand better, get the manufacturer's number off of the relay and do a google search. You should be able to find the schematic for it on-line. A lot of times it is printed right on the relay too......... Long story. Too much information, I know.

 

[LeTempt]

Jeff,

The base voltage wires at the relays are green. The Orange and Brown are signal voltage.

If you don't have base voltage at the relays, check for voltage next at the fuse box. You may just have a loose harness plug. If you start at the fusebox, we should be able to pinpoint the disconnect.

Hope this helps.

Michigan Iron,

Thanks for the additional troubleshooting information, I REALLY appreciate your help!!!

I checked the base voltage (green wires) at the relays and have no voltage when the headlight switch is the on position (low or high beam). With the headlight switch off (and even with the key turned off) there is about 7 volts at the green wires on the relays. I ran a jumper wire from the negative terminal on the battery to the relay mounting tab just to make absolutely sure I had a good ground and that made no difference.

I do have 12 volts at the fuse box on all fuses and all of the fuses are good.

Once again, I appreciate your assistance with this. I am getting more help from you guys than I am getting from the dealer where I purchased the tractor. They are willing to try to fix the problem, but I would have to drive 4 hours one way for them to just find a loose wire (I hope) or I might have to leave the tractor for them to work on and have to go back and get it once they get it figured out. I explained to them that I am mechanically inclined (I am a licensed A&P aircraft mechanic) and grew up on a farm, but they do not seem to be interested in assisting ME with fixing the problem to save me many hours on the road (and about $150 in gas per round trip).

I actually could have used the headlights last night. We were out at the property putting the tractor to work digging and pulling trees and was having so much fun that I did not want to quite when it got dark. With about 4 hours of work on the machine I am impressed so far. Had a minor hydraulic leak at one of the quick disconnects on the loader, but it (hopefully) was just a loose fitting. I will find out this weekend!!

Looking forward to more advice on what might be causing the headlight problem. THANKS in advance!!!

Jeff
Enterprise, AL
Kioti CK30HST....10 hours on the hour meter (it came with 6)!!

 

[MichiganIron]

Jeff,

A couple of thoughts:

You should have 12v at the base terminals with the switch off. You stated you have 7. Check both sides of the fusebox and also change the fuse, even if it looks ok. The relays are obvoiusly working for the voltage to drop when the signal terminal is powered from the switch.

With both relays acting the same, the problem appears to be between the fusebox and the relays. Try a continuity check between the fuse holder and the base terminal on the relays. We want to make sure there isn't a problem with the harness.

Let us know what you find.

 

[LeTempt]

Michigan Iron,

This is just like school...the professor gives you homework!!

I did check the continuity of the fuse, but I will change it out just to rule out a simple fix. I also checked to ensure I had 12 volts on both sides of every fuse in the fuse box.

Just so I understand you correctly, I should have 12 volts at the base terminals (green wires on the relays) all the time regardless of the (headlight or ignition) switch position - right? If so, I think we have found out why the headlights are not working. Now we need to find the root cause of why the voltage is not what it should be.

I sure do hate buying new stuff that doesn't work as it is supposed to right out of the box, but I have enjoyed getting your advice!!

I will let you know what I find out tonight.

THANKS!!!

Jeff

 

[LeTempt]

Michigan Iron (a.k.a - the professor),

Changed out the fuse, no change.

Checked both sides of the fuse block on the 20 amp headlight/horn fuse (as well as both sides of every other fuse again) and had 12 volts.

Checked for contunity on the green wire running from the fuse box (green wire at the back of the 20 amp headlight/horn fuse) to the relays...NO GOOD. Then I disconnected the plug from both relays to double check continuity on the green wire (between the fuse box and both green wires at the relays) and it was not good (no suprise, but wanted to make sure I just had the wire isolated).

So I connected a jumper wire from the battery to the green wire on the front relay and turned the headlight switch on...nice bright headlights on both high and low beams. Then just for giggles I ran a jumper wire from the back of the 20 amp fuse box to the front relay green terminal and when I turned the switch on I got nice bright headlights on both low and high beams. It certainly does appear that the green wire that runs from the 20 amp fuse box to the relays is bad.

It does not look like there is any kind of plug between the fuse box and the relay, but it was dark and kind of cold (down to a cool 41 degrees in LA - Lower Alabama) and well it is almost past my bedtime. Is there any kind of plug between the fuse box and relay hidden in between the frame rails or under a panel that is not obvious?

I am feeling better now that I know what the problem is. I am kind of a neat freak and like things being the way they are supposed to be. Not sure I will be happy with just running another wire from the fuse box to the relays on a one week old tractor. How would you handle something like this on a brand new tractor?

Once again, I REALLY appreciate all your help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeff
Enterprise, AL
CK30HST

 

[Gittyup]

If there are no connectors in-line, examine the crimped on lugs at each end. One might be improperly crimped onto the insulation or damaged. If would be easy to cut them off and reterminate. Assuming you have enough length, it would be as good as new. It would be very unusual for the wire to have failed internally. But, worth checking before reterminating. Anyway, I'd at least demand from the dealer a new wire/cable.

 

[BTI]

Locate the green wire in the connector under the right side floor board.
You have to pop the little covers off of them to see the wire colors.
I think it is in the one with red tape on both ends.
They are shown in picture #1 you put up.
I'm betting when you pull apart the large connector you'll see the spade is not making contact.

I just went through this.
At the customers wish we wired around it with waterproof connectors and heat shrink.
Oh and lots of dielectric grease

BTI