CK35 HST, nothing at key, no clicks, 100% good battery

[CenTex Chris]

Howdy from Texas,

Two months ago I had clicks at the key but no start, as described here:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/379845-how-raise-loader-arms-non.html

Epic contributor kOua got me going again by suggesting replacement of the fuel shut-off and starter solenoid relays, an easy fix which worked great.

But now I've got a *new* problem: absolutely nothing at the key this evening, no relay clicks, no dash lights, nothing.

The battery is less than a year old. Took it down to the local AutoZone tonight, and just as I expected, it checks out 100% fully charged.

So now I'm wondering if I might have a bad ignition switch.

However, there's no power to the horn or the headlights either. This tractor is getting no electrical power at all, despite a solid battery connection.

The one relay which I haven't replaced yet is the 70-amp pre-heat. Some input from the previous thread mentioned a clutch switch, which I know nothing about, and in the past I remember talk on the forum about a solenoid stop switch, another thing I know nothing about.

So I'm certainly open to suggestions, if I've provided enough clues about possible culprits here. Thanks in advance.

 

[ritcheyvs]

Do the emergency flashers work? They are about the only thing that doesn't go through the key switch. If the flashers work and everything else is dead, suspect the key switch. If the flashers don't work, check the main fuse, which is located in the wire bundle near the starter. If that fuse is OK, check for a bad battery cable and the place where the ground cable bolts to the frame (or engine block). There have been several cases of battery cable failure where the copper conductor fails (by corrosion) inside the plastic insulation so everything looks OK when it isn't.

 

[CenTex Chris]

You've given me something to do first thing in the morning. Thanks for the advice!

 

[CenTex Chris]

This morning I re-installed the battery after cleaning the batt. terminals and cable clamps. The ground cable looks solid with no external corrosion where it bolts to the frame, but I'm concerned about Steve's report of possible internal failure underneath the fine-looking plastic insulation.

Next step was to check the hazard lights operation per Steve's suggestion. I have not turned these on in quite a long time. In fact there is rust around the retaining bolt holding the pull-switch to the dash. Upon activation, the switch clicked rapidly several times, no lights, and then settled into a regular flash pattern (but with only the left signal light flashing ... the right must be burnt out).

I moved on to try the key. At the first detent, I heard the reassuring solenoid clicks and saw the dash lights. Advancing to the start position killed everything, though.

So I tried the hazards again. This time, only a high-pitched buzz from behind the dash, with nothing at the lights.

I tried the key again. First position produces some stuttering, sick-sounding relay clicks with occasional and weary intermittent dash lights.

I tried the horn again. It responds immediately with a loud and fat beep, but a second and third time it's the soft quiet trailing cry of a sleepy kitten. This cycle repeats.

About to look at fuses, although I doubt that's the problem. What I have is a healthy battery and a weak dashboard.

 

[ritcheyvs]

Sounds like a bad battery cable. If you have jumper cables, try "bypassing" the battery cables (one at a time) by connecting a jumper cable between the battery post and engine block (for negative side) or the big bolt on the starter solenoid (for positive).

 

[k0ua]

yep, a "high resistance connection" somewhere. Battery cable, or corrosion on the ground bolt. One innovative way to find a high resistance cable is to take your voltmeter with it set to volts, and measure from one end to the other end of the cable while you are attempting to pull current. If you see a voltage rise it is the culprit. You can do this for any connection in question. Remember it is supposed to be a solid big piece of copper wire with no appreciable voltage drop. What most people would call a "short circuit" (there will be a little if the starter actually spins, because it draws so much current.) But the usual lights and accessories should not show an appreciable voltage developed from one end to the other of a piece of wire. A length of wire is "shorted", it has to be to work. I am betting on corroded battery cable or connection.

Cut one open and you will find a nice greenish/white powder. The cure is No ox Id put on all connections when they are new. and rubbed over the joint of where the insulation stops and the connector /lug begins Make sure that battery fumes which are highly corrosive never can seep into that joint and start the corrosion process. Of course once a cable is damaged, like I describe, the solution is to replace it and put the protective grease over all of the new connections. Good luck and call back with what you find. Either way, we can try to help some more or congratulate you on your detective skills.

 

[sixdogs]

k0ua---Great idea on the bad ground. From hot rodding I have learned that any weird behavior or electrical issue is often a ground issue. Could be a bad ground to the frame.

 

[k0ua]

k0ua---Great idea on the bad ground. From hot rodding I have learned that any weird behavior or electrical issue is often a ground issue. Could be a bad ground to the frame.

Yep, many problems that seem to be "common" with all systems can usually be traced back to the thing that is "common" with all of them, and that is a lousy ground connections in some manner. Whether it is a corroded cable, loose bolt or whatever.

 

[Avondale]

I second that. I took mine off at frame, ground to bare metal and started from scratch. Still working now.

 

[ritcheyvs]

James' volt meter method is better than using the jumper cable bypass but the meter leads (or your arms) may be too short to keep the meter connected to the right places. I have various length wires with alligator clips that are handy for this sort of testing. I mentioned the jumper approach first only because more people have jumper cables than have (and can use) a voltmeter.

I believe moving the wires (to clean terminals and clamps) rubbed off just enough of the corrosion to allow a small current to flow, which is why things started working again until you tried the starter. Then that high start current burned the small area that was conducting (like blowing a fuse). I don't know exactly why but these original cables seem unusually vulnerable to this corrosion problem.