CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours

Fawken · Jul 30, 2015

CenTex Chris said:
Many thanks for your input. Yes, there should have been three springs... but only two were in the pan. It sure seems like the third one never was there to begin with. Its absence would most definitely have caused this problem, wouldn't it?

I'm afraid that getting a new motor from Kioti -- or for that matter getting Kioti involved in this at all -- would require my dealer going to bat for me. Unfortunately I don't have that option. My dealer left me hanging with this, as described in my first post. I'm pretty much a Kioti orphan now as a result.

You being from Texas I just assumed you were a mechanic or at least work on motorcycles and such. I apologize. Before I go any further here YOU need to go on OFFENSE! A piece of that oil ring was LEFT OUT during assembly and it CAN be proven. Do you realize what a serious breach of QA/QC that is? YOU need to start screaming loud and hard and make it clear that you will post on EVERY tractor and machinery forum from California to Istanbul. YOU WILL report this to every media source who will listen. AND you WILL NOT hesitate to sue if you do not receive fair recompense. As a fellow Texan I cannot believe YOU are even entertaining the idea of paying for this on a barely used tractor! The fact your dealer treats you (the customer) like dirt is irrelevant. IN fact, document all the delays and stonewalling from them. That will play to your advantage. Get NASTY, man! You paid good money for what should be a 20 year machine. Make it clear that you're prepared to publicize this to such an extent that Kioti won't sell another machine in Texas.

BTW, a three piece ring has the middle, wavy looking ring, and two thin, flat rings that sandwich it. They are supposed to be easier to install than the old style one-piece oil rings that were very brittle. The thing is the only company I know of that makes them and makes the matching pistons is based in China.

Coyote machine · Jul 30, 2015

Alright guys, threats and brandishing muscle isn't doing the OP's situation any good. CHILL out!
Regardless of Texas and whatever, here's what I would do. Call your selling dealer, make an appointment to go see the principal/dealer owner. Tell him while making the appointment that you have a serious problem with your motor and you want his UNdivided attention to this matter. Don't take no for an answer or we're too busy. This matter demands immediate and through attention on their and your part.

Go see them. Find out what they suggest doing to fix for you, or fix for resale, or buy back from you at salvage rate or whatever they/you can think of to put it right. Take what remains of any oil in the pan, and send it out for oil analysis.
Once the dealer and you have settled on a plan or potential plan tell us here about the options, including a short block, rebuild yours, or complete used or new engine swap.

Once you bring us the options we will help advise as to best outcome for YOU.

Contact Kioti AFTER speaking to your dealer, as needed, but give them the opportunity to go to bat for you. They have done all your service to date, so that is a good documented thing in your favor. Give them one last chance to step and let them know in no uncertain terms you expect them to do so- regardless of how busy they might be- you're their customer too.
Yelling/screaming, threatening, or tossing around lawsuit threats, is unproductive and will not get you anywhere. Be calm, assertive, and polite, and see where you get.

Your engine was a ticking time bomb, it just happened to explode in your neighbor's face instead of your's. Next time, I wouldn't lend out my tractor, regardless of to whom the recipient might be unless I was in the driver's seat, FWIW.

Fawken · Jul 30, 2015

Not meaning to piss anyone off, but I'm getting tired of poor service and shoddy products and if consumers do not stand together on this issue it will get worse. Wonder how many other Kiotis have a missing ring? You won't likely know for 400-600 hours of operation perhaps more. Dealers have got to be making a fortune because today I heard they might be offering 8 year financing. EIGHT (8) YEARS!!! Can you imagine paying on a tractor for 8 years? I say the OP received a defective product and it is in all of our best interest to see that justice is done.

Teachu2 · Jul 30, 2015

Fawken said:
Not meaning to piss anyone off, but I'm getting tired of poor service and shoddy products and if consumers do not stand together on this issue it will get worse. Wonder how many other Kiotis have a missing ring? You won't likely know for 400-600 hours of operation perhaps more. Dealers have got to be making a fortune because today I heard they might be offering 8 year financing. EIGHT (8) YEARS!!! Can you imagine paying on a tractor for 8 years? I say the OP received a defective product and it is in all of our best interest to see that justice is done.

I spent a dozen years in retail environments, managing sales and service departments. My advice:
1) Speak to the decision maker. EVERY company has someone who has the authority to fix your problem - your job is to climb the ladder until you gat to that person. Remember, EVERYONE can say NO, you need to get to the person who can say YES.
2) Know what you want. In this case, you should want Kioti USA to step up and replace or rebuild the engine. That's the minimum. I'd also REQUEST that they provide use of a loaner of some sort if this will be a protracted repair.
3) DO NOT make threats. State your position - "This failure was in no way my fault, it appears to be a concealed defect, and I am asking for Kioti to fix it in good faith. Are YOU the person with the power to make that happen, or do I need to contact someone above you? Can you help me reach the person who can fix this?" Assume that anyone that tells you NO is doing so because they are not authorized to tell you YES.
4) Don't ask for a new tractor - and don't settle for a used replacement engine. Neither is fair to both parties. Fair is fixing yours correctly. (Of course, if they offer a new tractor, accept with profuse gratitude!)
5) Be calm, positive, and firm. Involve your dealer first, enlisting his help in reaching the Kioti rep. The dealer cannot fix your problem, but they can get you heard by Kioti, who can and most probably will fix the problem. You are, after all, giving them the opportunity to protect their brand's reputation - and they value that.

Fawken · Jul 30, 2015

Teachu2 said:
I spent a dozen years in retail environments, managing sales and service departments. My advice:
1) Speak to the decision maker. EVERY company has someone who has the authority to fix your problem - your job is to climb the ladder until you gat to that person. Remember, EVERYONE can say NO, you need to get to the person who can say YES.
2) Know what you want. In this case, you should want Kioti USA to step up and replace or rebuild the engine. That's the minimum. I'd also REQUEST that they provide use of a loaner of some sort if this will be a protracted repair.
3) DO NOT make threats. State your position - "This failure was in no way my fault, it appears to be a concealed defect, and I am asking for Kioti to fix it in good faith. Are YOU the person with the power to make that happen, or do I need to contact someone above you? Can you help me reach the person who can fix this?" Assume that anyone that tells you NO is doing so because they are not authorized to tell you YES.
4) Don't ask for a new tractor - and don't settle for a used replacement engine. Neither is fair to both parties. Fair is fixing yours correctly. (Of course, if they offer a new tractor, accept with profuse gratitude!)
5) Be calm, positive, and firm. Involve your dealer first, enlisting his help in reaching the Kioti rep. The dealer cannot fix your problem, but they can get you heard by Kioti, who can and most probably will fix the problem. You are, after all, giving them the opportunity to protect their brand's reputation - and they value that.

Good advice. I can tell you have had experience in matters like these. I was perhaps harsh in my response to this and was not meaning to immediately threaten lawsuits and such. Yes, do everything Teachu2 has described first. I sure hope he gets a positive resolution. If it were me I'd be having an aneurysm. I'd also like to see close up pictures of the other pistons when the tractor is disassembled. If my hunch is correct and they're made in China that is probably something Kioti would not want widely publicized I would think.

k0ua · Jul 30, 2015

Teachu2 said:
I spent a dozen years in retail environments, managing sales and service departments. My advice:
1) Speak to the decision maker. EVERY company has someone who has the authority to fix your problem - your job is to climb the ladder until you gat to that person. Remember, EVERYONE can say NO, you need to get to the person who can say YES.
2) Know what you want. In this case, you should want Kioti USA to step up and replace or rebuild the engine. That's the minimum. I'd also REQUEST that they provide use of a loaner of some sort if this will be a protracted repair.
3) DO NOT make threats. State your position - "This failure was in no way my fault, it appears to be a concealed defect, and I am asking for Kioti to fix it in good faith. Are YOU the person with the power to make that happen, or do I need to contact someone above you? Can you help me reach the person who can fix this?" Assume that anyone that tells you NO is doing so because they are not authorized to tell you YES.
4) Don't ask for a new tractor - and don't settle for a used replacement engine. Neither is fair to both parties. Fair is fixing yours correctly. (Of course, if they offer a new tractor, accept with profuse gratitude!)
5) Be calm, positive, and firm. Involve your dealer first, enlisting his help in reaching the Kioti rep. The dealer cannot fix your problem, but they can get you heard by Kioti, who can and most probably will fix the problem. You are, after all, giving them the opportunity to protect their brand's reputation - and they value that.

This sure sound like good advice to me.

chuck172 · Jul 30, 2015

It's a shame, Chris's tractor was only one year out of the 4 year warranty, and Kioti doesn't even offer an extended warranty.

Coyote machine · Jul 30, 2015

chuck172 said:
It's a shame, Chris's tractor was only one year out of the 4 year warranty, and Kioti doesn't even offer an extended warranty.

Yes on the , 'it's a shame'; who knows on the no extended warranty. Kioti has offered one of the longest stock warranties in the tractor business, 4 years. Chris's engine is an anomaly to the CK line. Sometimes bad outcomes occur and we're all trying to help him get through it.

chuck172 · Jul 31, 2015

I contacted Melissa at Kioti customer relations. Asked her about getting an extended warranty. Her reply: Good morning, Chuck Thank you for contacting KIOTI. Unfortunately, we do not offer nor do we honor any extended warranties on our equipment.
So nothing was available to Chris.