Loader CK35 Loader Problem

ozley · Jan 5, 2015

oldpilgrim said:
the LS tractors had a lot of problems like that. Check their forum on this site. I read them a while ago, seems like the consensus was back dragging was the problem. I can't remember what the final solution(s) were.

I wouldn't say LS had the problem I would say the OP caused the problem by pushing on trees.

k0ua · Jan 5, 2015

Well, I have a lot of hours backdragging with Kubota and Kioti loaders.. I am trying to understand how this happened.. Did you have the bucket actually angled down or even over vertical and angled backwards or something.?

I always back drag with the bucket lower floor nearly horizontal.

Here is an example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wh-Y0d-pfw

lostcreekranch · Jan 5, 2015

k0ua said:
Well, I have a lot of hours backdragging with Kubota and Kioti loaders.. I am trying to understand how this happened.. Did you have the bucket actually angled down or even over vertical and angled backwards or something.? I always back drag with the bucket lower floor nearly horizontal. Here is an example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wh-Y0d-pfw

Exactly James. Keep the blade tip in front of the Bucket pins so, if you do hit something immovable the bucket can bounce up over it.

With blade behind the pins you can put some serious forces into the bucket linkages.

This is more pronounced with the newer parallelogram style linkages that give you more forward curl with bucket high but, that translates into allowing the bucket to forward curl way more with bucket down. Wasn't such an issue with the old style linkages.

Sent from my iPad using TractorByNet

VictorW · Jan 5, 2015

I remember about a year or two ago, another member reported doing the same thing. He was back dragging with the cutting edge angled backwards. He bent the links but they didn't break. There was the same general consenses to not upgrade those links and let the least expensive part take the hit than a cylinder or even the lift arm bending. I just don't back drag with the bucket edge close to or beyond verticle.

skipples · Jan 5, 2015

Yes, angled toward tractor not flat. I was leveling some damp clay soil. I've done this many many time with this tractor and my CK20 that I had for over ten years. I have both a box blade and a grader blade.....guess I'll be using them more now.

oldpilgrim · Jan 5, 2015

I've back dragged with the bucket beyond vertical with my old Ferguson..it was ruggedly built..... and it didn't have any of the linkage that seems to be what gives way.

Skipples, I don't think your CK20 as that linkage either, does it?

My Mahindra doesn't either. But I shy away from dragging it that way because the cylinders look wimpy compared to what my Ferguson had.

Can anyone tell me what advantage, if any, the design with the 'problem' linkage provides.

lostcreekranch · Jan 5, 2015

oldpilgrim said:
Can anyone tell me what advantage, if any, the design with the 'problem' linkage provides.

See my post above. "The newer parallelogram style linkages that give you more forward curl with bucket high".

The linkage IS NOT the problem, improper back dragging causes the failures. This was to be case in vast majority of LS linkage failures as well.

skipples · Jan 5, 2015

No, the CK20 had standard linkage and I just now realized the difference.

tman1020 · Jan 5, 2015

Thanks for sharing this I think you just saved some trouble for some (myself included). Glad the repair is not astronomical.

k0ua · Jan 5, 2015

skipples said:
Yes, angled toward tractor not flat. I was leveling some damp clay soil. I've done this many many time with this tractor and my CK20 that I had for over ten years. I have both a box blade and a grader blade.....guess I'll be using them more now.

Ok, I got it now. Thanks for the clarification.

k0ua · Jan 5, 2015

rlgustafson said:
See my post above. "The newer parallelogram style linkages that give you more forward curl with bucket high".

The linkage IS NOT the problem, improper back dragging causes the failures. This was to be case in vast majority of LS linkage failures as well.

Thanks Rick for helping explain this. I really didn't understand how this happened. I do now!

Msamt · Jan 5, 2015

Just saved me from killing my tractor, thanks!

Coyote machine · Jan 5, 2015

I did basically the same damage when I was a complete newbie to tractor's/loaders, etc. with my DK-35se/HST. I pretzeled the '1/2 moon' linkages the first time. Dealer replaced at his cost to me, and we beefed them up with an added weld on plate. I soon started bending them again, then decided to trade up to the DK-40se/HST, for greater loader capacity, and after 700+ hours I have caused no similar damage.
My damage was from back-dragging too, sometimes with the loader bucket edge at 90-1?? degrees, (past vertical). I would also allow the front wheels to raise off the ground, DUH! to add to my errors, at the time thinking I had a tank with front loader attached. I've since mended my ways.:confused3:
Sometimes the solution IS to go bigger or go home. I paid for my mistake at trade in, less than a year old, BUT I definitely needed the bigger capacity in the end. I'd be looking at a 60+HP now but it wouldn't fit in my barn doors height-wise.

BTW, good luck with the repairs - you caught it before it really broke. :thumbsup:

skipples · Jan 5, 2015

No, the CK20 had standard linkage and I just now realized the difference.

pmsmechanic · Jan 5, 2015

skipples said:
That's probably true, Ernie. I guess they could be flattened and welded but I just ordered them from Michigan Iron and Equip for around $200 USD including shipping to me in So California. Lesson learned.

The price doesn't sound to bad to me. Sometimes I've had the local machine shop duplicate parts for me. More than once they have made parts cheaper than the dealer can sell them for. Some eg's: a two foot long shaft for a swather $72 at the dealer. $42 at the machine shop. I needed a bushing to fit on the same shaft. $42 at the dealer vs $3 at the local farm supply store.

engine29 · Jan 5, 2015

LS and Kioti loaders are the same and made by the same company.

DK35vince · Jan 5, 2015

Its not unheard of to bend the loaders curl cylinders when back dragging with the bucket curled at to steep of angle.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...g/149915-bent-curl-cylinder-la723-loader.html
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/140583-bent-hydraulic-cylinders-now-what.html

lostcreekranch · Jan 5, 2015

k0ua said:
Thanks Rick for helping explain this. I really didn't understand how this happened. I do now!

James;

Picked up our new LS XR4046HC right before Thanksgiving and John Ryan highlighted the potential issues with the parallelogram linkage if you try to back drag with bucket blade past 90 degrees. This is my first FEL with this style linkage. Our New Holland Tl100A is standard. Previous Kubota B2710 was standard.

The curl function, on new LS FEL, has way more travel so, took a bit of experience to figure out back dragging. On my Kubota if I wanted to back drag I rolled bucket completely back and got busy. On the LS, if I roll bucket back to limits I am back dragging with the SSQA. Learned to back drag at just inside of a level bucket and EZPZ, works great.

Sent from my iPad using TractorByNet

k0ua · Jan 5, 2015

.

Learned to back drag at just inside of a level bucket and EZPZ, works great.

yep, that is what I have been doing.

pmsmechanic · Jan 5, 2015

I've often thought of welding a blade to the back of my bucket for back blading. Just curl the bucket a bit above horizontal and the blade would be in action. You could use the curl of the bucket to control depth.