Keoke
Gold Member
Wen, good point on the downside of pushing hard with the bucket while the rams are extended. Done that a hundred times and never gave it any taught BEFORE NOW.
regards,
george
regards,
george
clearing trees
- Thread starter shade2u2
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gordon
Veteran Member
Cowboy very good post. I agree with you about the correct piece of equipment for each job is the key. Safty comes first no matter what I'm doing and if I don't feel safe I don't do it. But I do think my Kobota has alittle dozer in it.
What I do with my tractor I wouldn't recommend to anyone I've sure tore up enough stuff on it over the years. Like Del said the tractor has no mind it just keeps working. The better part of the breakdowns over the years have been from abuse, but that Kubota is one tough piece of equipment.
When it comes to safty I have a cab and added brush guards. Also on the underbelly I've added plate steel. I welded pipe to protect the valve stems. I made a heavy duty front brush guard to protect the front of the tractor. Also added another piece of plate steel on the roof of the cab. Almost all of the above add ons were done after something happened to cause a problem.
Now I'm going to get a new tractor and will be doing alot less skidding with it than I have in the past but I will still have to do alot of safty addons to it once I get it. I decided against the new style Kubota cab to much glass. Great for visibility but not for the woods. Well I'm starting to get way off topic so thats all for now.
Gordon
What I do with my tractor I wouldn't recommend to anyone I've sure tore up enough stuff on it over the years. Like Del said the tractor has no mind it just keeps working. The better part of the breakdowns over the years have been from abuse, but that Kubota is one tough piece of equipment.
When it comes to safty I have a cab and added brush guards. Also on the underbelly I've added plate steel. I welded pipe to protect the valve stems. I made a heavy duty front brush guard to protect the front of the tractor. Also added another piece of plate steel on the roof of the cab. Almost all of the above add ons were done after something happened to cause a problem.
Now I'm going to get a new tractor and will be doing alot less skidding with it than I have in the past but I will still have to do alot of safty addons to it once I get it. I decided against the new style Kubota cab to much glass. Great for visibility but not for the woods. Well I'm starting to get way off topic so thats all for now.
Gordon
TomG
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I'll add that the right piece of equipment for sizable trees, other than a dozer, is a skidder. People who live outside logging country may not have seen a skidder.
A skidder looks something like a cross between a gigantic dune buggy and an armoured personal carrier. They have blades on the front and lift booms on the back. The blades and booms seem dwarfed by the size of the machine. Anyway, skidders look nothing like tractors. I imagine that's because they do work that is nothing like what a tractor is intended to do.
A skidder looks something like a cross between a gigantic dune buggy and an armoured personal carrier. They have blades on the front and lift booms on the back. The blades and booms seem dwarfed by the size of the machine. Anyway, skidders look nothing like tractors. I imagine that's because they do work that is nothing like what a tractor is intended to do.
gordon
Veteran Member
Tom I'll have to have a good chat with my tractor then because it thinks it's part skidder, part dozer and part bull ox (a small one of course). I have to say that there are many tractors out there skidding logs and alot of equipment to add on to a tractor for that purpose. Now if a tractor wasn't ment to do this type of work why would they make winches, forwarders, and boom grapples for farm tractors?
A tractor will not compact the forest as much as even a small skidder. Granted it's not as good for the forest floor as using a team of horses but I sure can't afford to feed a bunch of horses.
So both pieces of equipment are options for skidding logs in the woods with the proper safty equipment of course. There are alot of skidders in this area as well as tractors doing the skidding. I live in Deleware and were not talking about an old growth forest with logs of 4-6+ foot butt. What I deal with is a 1-4 foot butt. Not only do I skid I also do alot of cleanup after the skidders from other companies get done and leave the land looking like a bomb went off and large rutts.
But you are right Tom that a skidder is designed to do one thing and do it well where a tractor has to wear many different hats. A skidder can pull many more trees out at a time than I ever could think of doing in one pull. So there are pros and cons to everything, for a logging company and productivity a tractor is useless in their eyes. But to alot of landowners a tractor is a viable option in compaction.
The way you described the skidder is perfect for those who have never seen one. A tractor might not be ment to skid but please don't tell that to my tractor it might get spoiled and we can't have that./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Gordon
A tractor will not compact the forest as much as even a small skidder. Granted it's not as good for the forest floor as using a team of horses but I sure can't afford to feed a bunch of horses.
So both pieces of equipment are options for skidding logs in the woods with the proper safty equipment of course. There are alot of skidders in this area as well as tractors doing the skidding. I live in Deleware and were not talking about an old growth forest with logs of 4-6+ foot butt. What I deal with is a 1-4 foot butt. Not only do I skid I also do alot of cleanup after the skidders from other companies get done and leave the land looking like a bomb went off and large rutts.
But you are right Tom that a skidder is designed to do one thing and do it well where a tractor has to wear many different hats. A skidder can pull many more trees out at a time than I ever could think of doing in one pull. So there are pros and cons to everything, for a logging company and productivity a tractor is useless in their eyes. But to alot of landowners a tractor is a viable option in compaction.
The way you described the skidder is perfect for those who have never seen one. A tractor might not be ment to skid but please don't tell that to my tractor it might get spoiled and we can't have that./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Gordon
TomG
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Gordon: No intent to detract from your tractor, or any other tractor. Tractors certainly are used to skid. There was even a discussion on tractor logging awhile back.
I think my main point is that people like me can get unrealistic notions of the capabilities of a compact tractor. Any time something that is being towed that weighs more than the tractor, there's a real danger.
Yes, those logs sure do weigh a lot. Many of the logging trucks that come by here lug down to 40-50 mph on a hill my 1/2 ton pulls in overdrive.
I remember Stumper, who doesn't seem to post any longer, recall seeing a log going downhill at good speed, and towing a skidder behind it. If that happens, it would be good to be in something that seems a bit like an armoured personnel carrier rather than a tractor. Of course, maybe somebody with a tractor would take a little more time and care.
Anyway, yes, I also get real tired of looking at logged areas that seem like a practice field for carpet-bombing. I am tired of logging companies that log public land and cheat on the required buffer zones between waterways or highways. Gee, there's few miles along the highway where the buffer zone is the same strip that the electric utility will have to take out to keep the trees off their lines. And, I love the stand of white pine that was logged and reforested with jack pine. Jack pine doesn't even grow here on its own. Well, I suppose that plantation is about ready to log again--for fence posts. They'd probably have to wait a few more years if they put it back in pine.
I guess, if it has to happen, I just wish a little more of the profit from selling the public forests would stick around the areas that produce it. But, I guess this is starting to sound like a rant, so I'll stop. More positively, horses are much easier on the forest. There are still a few skidding horses around that are used in small lots where the owner doesn't want to build more roads. Helicopters would be even nicer (There was a comment a few weeks ago that helicopters are required for areas around Tahoe). But then, I get to all sorts of places in the bush that would take major efforts if it weren't for the old logging roads. Have to keep perspective I guess.
I think my main point is that people like me can get unrealistic notions of the capabilities of a compact tractor. Any time something that is being towed that weighs more than the tractor, there's a real danger.
Yes, those logs sure do weigh a lot. Many of the logging trucks that come by here lug down to 40-50 mph on a hill my 1/2 ton pulls in overdrive.
I remember Stumper, who doesn't seem to post any longer, recall seeing a log going downhill at good speed, and towing a skidder behind it. If that happens, it would be good to be in something that seems a bit like an armoured personnel carrier rather than a tractor. Of course, maybe somebody with a tractor would take a little more time and care.
Anyway, yes, I also get real tired of looking at logged areas that seem like a practice field for carpet-bombing. I am tired of logging companies that log public land and cheat on the required buffer zones between waterways or highways. Gee, there's few miles along the highway where the buffer zone is the same strip that the electric utility will have to take out to keep the trees off their lines. And, I love the stand of white pine that was logged and reforested with jack pine. Jack pine doesn't even grow here on its own. Well, I suppose that plantation is about ready to log again--for fence posts. They'd probably have to wait a few more years if they put it back in pine.
I guess, if it has to happen, I just wish a little more of the profit from selling the public forests would stick around the areas that produce it. But, I guess this is starting to sound like a rant, so I'll stop. More positively, horses are much easier on the forest. There are still a few skidding horses around that are used in small lots where the owner doesn't want to build more roads. Helicopters would be even nicer (There was a comment a few weeks ago that helicopters are required for areas around Tahoe). But then, I get to all sorts of places in the bush that would take major efforts if it weren't for the old logging roads. Have to keep perspective I guess.
MChalkley
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TomG - The logging companies don't cheat the laws around here. They just buy all the politicians so they'll pass laws to make it legal to do whatever they want. You can go to jail around here for cutting a 4" tree within 100' of the water on your own property, but if you're a logging company you can clear cut it to the water and push your trash in the river.
And have you noticed this: when was the last time you heard a politician refer to his job as "public service"? Oh well, I suppose there's some value to the idea that they're no longer pretending to be something they're not.
Mark
And have you noticed this: when was the last time you heard a politician refer to his job as "public service"? Oh well, I suppose there's some value to the idea that they're no longer pretending to be something they're not.
Mark
>>You can go to jail around here for cutting a 4" tree
Tell me about it...I serve on my local conservation committee, we have oversite of all projects w/in 200 ft of water or wetlands...one time we had to tell an 80 year old guy that in order to dig 4 holes to put in sono-tubes for a car-port, there was a pile of paperwork he was going to have to fill out because his "carport" was going to be close to a stream (he decided against doing the project once he realized the paperwork the state requires)...on the otherhand, you can take a 30ton skidder and drive it up and down thru all the woods around here you want, and make one hell of a mess out of the soil and the water, and its all perfectly legal...if you are logging. Go figure.
Tell me about it...I serve on my local conservation committee, we have oversite of all projects w/in 200 ft of water or wetlands...one time we had to tell an 80 year old guy that in order to dig 4 holes to put in sono-tubes for a car-port, there was a pile of paperwork he was going to have to fill out because his "carport" was going to be close to a stream (he decided against doing the project once he realized the paperwork the state requires)...on the otherhand, you can take a 30ton skidder and drive it up and down thru all the woods around here you want, and make one hell of a mess out of the soil and the water, and its all perfectly legal...if you are logging. Go figure.
MChalkley
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ejb - I'm not sure whether to be glad it's the same way where you are, so I've got company, or sad because it just means there's another area getting ruined by those lousy bums. What they're doing to the environment is a real shame. All the homeowners in the country wouldn't begin to do the damage in a year, law or no law, that the logging companies do in a week. Yet they're unregulated. Probably just a coincidence, though - I'm sure there's no foul play going on.
Mark
Mark
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Where do they find these people that work for the state regulatory agencies that monitor forest practices?
I mean, I am not aware of that species.
Home Sapiens Testi-not
(men born without testicles!)
Sorry couldn't resist.
There are good folks out there that are loggers and gutsy guys on the other end but they seem to be a rare breed lately.
My favorite comment from a state Department of Natural Resources guy that was "in charge" of a recent operation...
Permit required non compacting removal of timber. This usually means a wide track machine. Company was using rubber tired skidder.
Called 3 other DNR offices to get opinions on what "low impact removal meant. They all said basically "Anything but a rubber tired skidder".
When I confronted my DNR guy about shutting the operation down...his response...and this is a quote..."It would depend on what type of rubber tired skidder!" He knew I wasn't talking about a rubber tracked machine either.
Oh well, it's only 60 acres right above my waterfront property.
Once they are gone all bets are off, it's then YOUR FAULT if you have a problem.
Speaking of the 200 feet from the shoreline stuff...once you are past that point you can do ANYTHING no matter how it effects those down below or the shoreline itself (slides)
If the poor slob building the house shakes a rag and gets dust in the water he's in trouble. If a road is built pointing straight to the water on the above property which in turn causes a LANDSLIDE into the water...no problem.
When I build I'm going to do everything that a hydrologist and geologist tells me makes sense to preserve the land.
If the county wants something else, and it makes no sense and interferes, well it's a small county, I'm curious what their swat team budget is.
Sure they can put a lien on it, penalty after penalty until they take the land from me...then with half my property gone I'll have free time, do they really want me running around loose that pi%í off? Once I get the kids through college I'm a free man. Won't have to tow the line any more.
Think that guy in San Diego that went nuts and stole the army tank and drove it around, over cars etc was nuts?
I know where to rent dozers!
The above brought to you by a kind sensible fellow with a clean record that only desires to be left alone, that loves his land and will protect it far more carefully then any desk riding regulationist can dictate.
We have the same thing here..."he's doing WHAT to his property"..."We'll send someone right out"..."Oh it is a logging operation?...it's FINE"
I mean, I am not aware of that species.
Home Sapiens Testi-not
(men born without testicles!)
Sorry couldn't resist.
There are good folks out there that are loggers and gutsy guys on the other end but they seem to be a rare breed lately.
My favorite comment from a state Department of Natural Resources guy that was "in charge" of a recent operation...
Permit required non compacting removal of timber. This usually means a wide track machine. Company was using rubber tired skidder.
Called 3 other DNR offices to get opinions on what "low impact removal meant. They all said basically "Anything but a rubber tired skidder".
When I confronted my DNR guy about shutting the operation down...his response...and this is a quote..."It would depend on what type of rubber tired skidder!" He knew I wasn't talking about a rubber tracked machine either.
Oh well, it's only 60 acres right above my waterfront property.
Once they are gone all bets are off, it's then YOUR FAULT if you have a problem.
Speaking of the 200 feet from the shoreline stuff...once you are past that point you can do ANYTHING no matter how it effects those down below or the shoreline itself (slides)
If the poor slob building the house shakes a rag and gets dust in the water he's in trouble. If a road is built pointing straight to the water on the above property which in turn causes a LANDSLIDE into the water...no problem.
When I build I'm going to do everything that a hydrologist and geologist tells me makes sense to preserve the land.
If the county wants something else, and it makes no sense and interferes, well it's a small county, I'm curious what their swat team budget is.
Sure they can put a lien on it, penalty after penalty until they take the land from me...then with half my property gone I'll have free time, do they really want me running around loose that pi%í off? Once I get the kids through college I'm a free man. Won't have to tow the line any more.
Think that guy in San Diego that went nuts and stole the army tank and drove it around, over cars etc was nuts?
I know where to rent dozers!
The above brought to you by a kind sensible fellow with a clean record that only desires to be left alone, that loves his land and will protect it far more carefully then any desk riding regulationist can dictate.
We have the same thing here..."he's doing WHAT to his property"..."We'll send someone right out"..."Oh it is a logging operation?...it's FINE"
richh
Gold Member
GREAT POST Del dittos. Remember if you rent a CAT get a D9 or bigger, there a whole bunch a fun./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Rich
Rich