clearing trees

[gordon]

The good thing about this area it's flat as flat can be but like anywhere erosion can be a problem just not as bad as a hilly area. Around here there are a few people who work for the state that are great and the rest---it goes without saying.

The land that I work on is all private owners and you would be surprized at how many just sell their wood to the first company that knocks on the door. They have no idea what it's really worth compared to what they actually make, its a shame. Then there are other very well informed land owners and they are the ones who have had a walk through done and have an idea to what a contract should bring and what rescrictions to put into the contract. The well informed people are the better ones to deal with in the long run for me. But it's a two way street.

There was a study done out west on how much the logging companys were over cutting. It was amazing and what did just a couple of companies get a slap on the wrist. It's a shame but there is alot of bribes and turned heads and nothing is done about it.

For the private landowners who are thinking about getting their land timbered, do a few simple things before you even think about signing a contract. First remember it's your land and you should have a long term plan made up. Second you must decide on how much of your timber you want taken off the land. Third hire a forester to do a walk through to give you a value of your timber stand. He or she can help draw up a contract for you. Fouth put rescrictions in the contract as to logging roads, stumpage, buffers of any sort, time of year and also clean up. Of course the more rescrictions you have the lower bids but at least you land wont look like a bomb field when they leave. This is some very basic items to consider before a logger sets foot on your property with a saw. The time of year that it's cut will also dictate how much natural regrowth will take place and the last thing after the logging is finished are you going to replant or let nature take its course.

Not all logging companies are bums there are some good guys out there you just have to find them thats all. Before you sign the contract go look at some past sites the the company has done to see what kind of mess they left behind.

When you do put your timber up for bid don't just deal with local companies you might get double for the same timber to a mill 40 miles away. Another option is to have a portable mill set up on site that way you could do your own loggin and not even need to worry about getting the sawlogs to the mill. Many different options to consider before starting and if well thought out a very outstanding project.

Did you guys realize that are forests are healthier now than ever before and alot of that is due to logging and reforestry on its hole circle.

Just a few thoughts on choppin trees
I pride myself on being low impact as possible

Gordon

 

[Anonymous Poster]

You said it Gordon, sounds like you've seen some messes.

I ran into one outfit that is run by and hires what I'd term professionals. The head cutter and on the the job foreman in particular. I guess he's the guy I always think of when I pick up a book on logging. His way of doing things, his work ethic, and overall attitude is what I think was like my grandfather. Say what you mean, do what you say, make the "golden rule" your business plan (however corny that sounds to some today) and you'll have a profitable business and lots of friends.

The other guys...why is the worst operators don't seem to have any teeth? After a couple of trees were cut in an agreed buffer his response. "Too late now, want me to stand em back up. Yuk Yuk?

I always treasure the good guys when I find them and try to steer people towards them whenever possible. In today's climate a lot of people look at the bottom line never knowing that the end result not be what they think the vague contract specifies.

"And we're going to leave 20% of the trees"

What does that mean? It may mean a bunch of bent over palm trees that even a woodpecker would laugh at.

And government employees? I have found, (too many times) those great guys and gals that know how to work beyond the letter of the law...not defeating it but showing you options to meet the spirit of the law, seem to retire early. I think that type of person finds their job frustrating. There plenty of a%%hole land owners out there too.

I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. A soft tone and a kind word now and then go a long way. I know you're probably thinking I must be schizoid from one post to the other. I only react negatively to SOME people. 98% I'm a puppy.

del

 

[MChalkley]

Del - Good post! Wouldn't that be great? You could climb up in that crawler, mosey on down to county administration at 3:30 (You know they're all there, because they're waiting for 3:50 so they can go home. Sure, I know they don't get off until 4:00, but they cheat on everything else, too.) You could line up with a nice long row of county cars and just crush them with no more sensation than you'd get eating a bowl of grape-nuts that haven't gotten soggy yet. Then, when they come out to yell and scream, you could just say "Next time you want to come to my place to harass me, try walking. Hey, you bought 'em with my money. I gaveth, and now I taketh away."

Mark

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Well at least I'd have a less stressful life after that, mowing the lawn at the state prison. Wonder if they'd let me take one of my tractors with me?

 

[ejb]

Another good one that happened a few miles from my house...a guy who owns a quarry in town decides to expand by purchasing a 40 acre lot across the street, no permits, no public hearing nothing, he goes in with his equipment, not only cuts down ALL the trees, he removes half the side of the hill that he is on so that he can get down to the rock that he wants to and then begin blasting...we (local Conservation Commission) called the state D.E.M. (Dept of Enviromental Management) to see what could be done and they basically said "Nothing". Didn't even care, not only did he completely log-off 100% of the trees, he also remove all of the topsoil etc and apparently there is nothing anyone can do about it....then again, a guy with a small house wants to dig 4 holes, 3 feet deep and 12 inches across and he had to fill out reams of paperwork and wait about 2 months for the process to run its course....

 

[gordon]

Del you are so right about the teeth, you sure your not from Delaware? Do you know how I get almost all of my jobs---word of mouth. Do a good job for someone at a fair price thats all it takes. No B.S. just be honest with whoever your dealing with it's quite easy.

The worst phone call that I get goes like this--I didn't think they would actually leave my property looking like a mine field and I called them back and they said that they met the contract--sad but true. Or what is even worse I go in on a clean up job and haul out 10-12" tops and sell them to the small mill and get almost what they got per b.f. for there prime timber. So sad I can't help but feel sorry for some of the people they just didn't know any better and then a logging company knocks on there door and says you know how much money I can make you without you even lifting a finger---the people jump at the dollar sign and sign a vauge contract and get RIPPED OFF by mister nice logging outfit. I could go on and on about this it just makes me so mad.

That 20% of bent over junk wood yea thats another good story line. To many logging companies motto's are SEE YA WOULDN'T WANT TO BE YA as they laugh all the way to the bank.

Just remember todays forests are for our kids not only us!!!!!!
Gordon

 

[gordon]

here is something on the lighter side of logging. http://www.forestindustry.com/member-client/pressroom/Articles/bear.asp

Just glad no bears around here!!!/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Gordon

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: clearing trees (long)

Definition...

"We'll clean up the slash"

This means mounding up any limbs or stumps into a pile, preferably as close to any good left behind trees as possible (including neighbors) in a way that you can't possibly ever think of lighting it without fire danger.

Or pile it in a pile so big a professional contractor wouldn't even light.

"We'll leave it like a park"

I guess this would be Mt St. Helens National Monument in the area where they didn't pick up the blown down trees.

"We'll leave the few big trees you asked about"

Yes they will, but first they will drop every tree against it so it has no branches, and then bash into it repeatedly with the skidder, or drag logs against it, or pull the roots out of the ground.

"Our crew will be in and out in 2 weeks"

Yes they will, and then you can spend 2 weeks cleaning up the broken glass from one of their truck windshields they broke by dropping a tree on it, and taking your Kubota/JD/NH and digging up the ground where their ancient piece of crap log loader puked 200 gallons of hydraulic fluid. Plan on spending some time picking up beer bottles, cans, food wrappers, empty oil cans, and last but not least used toilet paper on the surface. (At least my cat and most hikers I know have the smarts to bury his!)

Also after they're gone, you can begin regretting not being there every second to make sure they didn't go over the property lines and cut your neighbors trees. Or maybe they just dropped some of the trees on top of your neighbors land, crushing some of his trees because it was more convenient then having to drop them on your land.

Did they require a survey first, or have it done themselves, or have someone at least locate the current markers. Did they get together or talk with all of the surrounding neighbors to make sure everybody was straight on the property lines? That's a good sign right off the bat.

Gordon, you may like this. I have some property that has a band about 80 feet wide runniing through half of it and goes through all of the neighboring parcels that we call "The Barrier." It is on a mild slope, I can't figure out how it could have occurred unless there was a landslide many (100)years ago, as the ground below it is dry. This barrier has 2-4 feet of the stickiest black goo you've ever seen.

When I first bought the property I had a guy do a perk test for septic. I knew that area wouldn't perk, asked the Backhoe Guy what he thought it could have been caused by, he said let's take a look. I said let's walk it first before you take your machine there. Nope, he said he "never got stuck with the backhoe" and drove right in...Only thing he said was "Oh my God its a Bog!" He flailed around for hours and hours finally gave up had to have dozer come and pull him out. Hey never would come back.

I finally breached it by digging some ditches through it with my mighty Ford NH driving on expanded metal mats. I would dig with the backhoe and the sides would fall in so the ditch ended up 8 feet wide. One time it started caving in towards the tractor so I stopped digging it so deep.

Made a road across it by cutting the alder trees down, laying the branches on top of the goo and the logs on top of the branches and covering it all with sandy dirt I dug out of the bank. Thought I was brilliant, then everyone began telling me that's how it used to be done, they were called "punk" roads or "corduroy" roads.

Anyway when neighboring piece of property was logged by complete imbeciles, I went over trying to be friendly anyway, told them about the "barrier" said I thought they should use cables to drag the trees from the lower area so they don't have to cross it.

Duh...a waste of breath...

"Hey, we're loggers buddy" was their response.

OK, I went on with my doings, sometimes grabbed a Pepsi or cool-aid and sat on an old growth stump I had cut into a chair and watched them.

They just drove the skidder into it. The goo went up almost to the top of the tires. They were like a fly on flypaper (never see flypaper anymore do we?).

The guy got off somehow and they hooked the winch to a stump on dry land. Pulled the stump out of the ground. Found a BIG old stump that had "pitched" and was solid. Winch would stall. Went and got a block and tackle to double or quadruple pulling force. Broke arch off of the back of the skidder. Tunneled down in goo and hooked to pull hook or axle or something. Broke cable a couple times. One time straightened out a STRONG hook!

Gave up next day brought big dozer, by then the suction was tremendous in that goo. Dozer pulled and pulled until one of the tracks fell off or broke off. Somehow they got it out, I wasn't there when they did. All because they wouldn't listen to a neighbor who was a know-nothing (me).

And the land owner (who was a cluck anyway and deserved it all) and his money? I guess this type of douglas fir log is priced not just by the length but by the small end. If you sell a 32 foot log or 40 foot log that is 30" on one end and 12" on the small end you get a set price, but if you leave an extra 8 feet on, even though it's actually more wood, the small end is suddently 4" and it reduces the price terribly!

All his logs were hauled by a different company and the cutters didn't know this! The guy got squat for some nice logs. Yup, hiring the cheapos sure makes sense!

Ten years later my wife and I still use that phrase for blundering idiocy. "Hey buddy we're loggers!"

 

[Rowski]

I agree. Word of mouth is the best advertisement. I have heard and seen this a lot IF YOU LIKE OUR WORK TELL A FREIND, IF YOU DON"T LIKE OUR WORK TELL US. By the way loggers up here in VT are average. There are a few that still log with horses. Very slow but very little distruction (pretty neat to watch). Some of the home owners here don't know whats going on. They look a price (more money in there pocket) but the mess they see after changes their mind.

 

[TomG]

We've got lots of bears around. But they're black bear, not grizzly. I should consider myself lucky I guess.
However, even with our mild mannered blacks, it did take me 20 minutes to put a couple of bags in the landfill last summer. Myself, another guy and the dump super were having a contest of wills with the bear. The bear is occupied with the super and friend, and I almost backed into it before noticing.

Well, I'm not throwing my bags in the pit as long as the bear is standing at the edge. I suppose the bear is thinking: 'Maybe they'll go away so I can go down in the pit if I stand here long enough.' So, the three of us congregate around my 1/2 ton and stare at the bear from about 30'. Finally the super shuffles his feet quickly. 'Boy, that's one familiar bear' he says. 'They usually run away when you do that.' Five minutes later the bear lumbers off into the bush a way. Guess he checked his watch and realize that it was about time to close the dump and we weren't worth further aggravation.

The super was chased back into his 1/2 ton last year. Don't know if he was shuffling that day or not. The Township got him a permit to carry his rifle on site. Some fringe benefit. The same township just solved a garbage problem at the boat launch. People pull in off the river and dump their garbage. The township put in five garbage cans at the launch. Great says the guy whose drive comes out just above the launch. 'Now I can just drop off porridge for the whole family on my way to work.'

According to a Yellowstone ranger, the way to tell a black from a grizzly is to climb a tree. If it comes after you, it's a black. Of course, Yellowstone isn't much logged much, so there wouldn't be a shortage of things to climb. Yep, we're going to need those trees to figure out all these bears. The Province cancelled the spring bear hunt, and now they're relocating the extra bears from an area with tourists to around a landfill that is near our camp. Fraid we got enough bear around for them to hold parades. And of course, they're also issuing permits to log on nearby public lands. Guess we'll have to come up with a new bear test.