Cold start failure

[McLachp]

New question
I have an Agco Allis 5670 built around 1992. It is air cooled and well finned. Any suggestions as to how I can warm it for cold weather starting. below minus 5 C it is tense. below minus ten no dice. There does not seem to be any glow plugs.
There is a air heater on the manifold but it does not appear to have any effect. I have tried a magnetic block heater but the block is well designed to dissipate heat not accept it.
Does anyone sell a shroud that could cover the block and keep the heat in?

 

[Agvg]

Deutz engine?

 

[bigdeano]

New question
I have an Agco Allis 5670 built around 1992. It is air cooled and well finned. Any suggestions as to how I can warm it for cold weather starting. below minus 5 C it is tense. below minus ten no dice. There does not seem to be any glow plugs.
There is a air heater on the manifold but it does not appear to have any effect. I have tried a magnetic block heater but the block is well designed to dissipate heat not accept it.
Does anyone sell a shroud that could cover the block and keep the heat in?

You could get a propane or kerosene fueled torpedo heater and aim it under the tractor for a while. All those fins should absorb the heat nicely. I have a 110,000 btu kerosene one with wheels that really pours out the heat. Just be sure to have some ventilation.

I don't like propane because it makes so much moisture when it burns, which then condenses on everything metal and causes rust.

 

[skyhook]

Electric blanket

Check out this thread.....

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/192162-how-i-start-air-cooled.html

 

[mtaves]

Hi everyone - thanks for all the helpful posts!

Sorry its been so long since replying, but wasn't able to get at the tractor again until the weekend. Found out something had pushed the front grill in just enough to keep the hood latch from opening, had enough natural light and flashlight to see what was going on and how to jimmy it open. The batter was getting pretty weak after my last try to start it, so needed to get the hood open and put a trickle charger on the battery.

I can confirm the block heater works just fine - however, it is not actually heating the block. The heater is located on the coolant hose running out of the bottom of the radiator, not in the actual block. I guess the hope was that enough heat transfers through the stationary liquid to warm up the block.

Tried to load a picture of this but things are not cooperating. I've left the code in below that the Insert Image tool put in. Hoping that it appears as a picture for the rest of you.



Points well taken on the ether - will not be trying this.

Poorly winterized fuel could very well be the problem. Things are warmer now (-14C / 7F) so should be able to start it tomorrow with a fully charged battery and block heater on overnight. Next time I get into town will be getting some winter fuel conditioner and start the tractor again to make sure treated fuel is in all the lines. I changed all the filters in August 2014, so the new OEM fuel filter has less than 20 hours on it. Actually - I missed the air filter now that I think about it. That probably isn't helping. I will take it off to improve air flow on startup, but get a replacement soon. I like the air dryer idea - will have to get the wife out to help on that one. That should cost me a dinner out at the very least.

Someone asked how long I had it running last and how did it run: the day before the problem, the temperature was warmer (about -22C) and just barely got the tractor started after about 2 minutes of cranking. The tractor ran fine after that. I kept it at 1800rpm while I plowed snow around for over an hour. It ran well, no issues. The engine temperature indicator never made it as high as the usual operating temperature, but I expect that is normal when ambient temperatures are this low.

This page has seen a lot of hits so am guessing lots of people have danced with this problem or expect to at some time in the not too distant future. Will post an update tomorrow.

 

[Agvg]

A hose heater should work, do you run synthetic oil?

 

[mtaves]

No - just regular oil. It would be great to test out all the proposed ideas one at a time to see what works and how well, but fortunately/unfortunately we have run out of the extremely cold weather for the time being. There are just so many ways for things to go wrong...

 

[Agvg]

Use syncretic oil

 

[buickanddeere]

A lower rad hose heater works great to heat the radiator but not so effective hearing the engine. A frost plug heater or a tank heater is the only efficient warming method.
If the thermostat or glow plugs are not working, how about repairing them?
For air cooled about all you can do it synthetic oil and a jam a 1500W hot air gun in to heat the block and head.

 

[Agvg]

Hot water goes up and not down to the radiator, have a 700w hose heater on my Ursus with a quite large 4.5l engine and the engine gets warm, a block heater is better but it's not that bad.

 

[DANOCHEESE]

Check your coolant level,, The lower heater hose unit needs coolant to allow the heat to transfer to the block. Add some number one diesel to your tank to prevent gelling up when you get it started. Power Service White Bottle, Howes also works fine. If your machine sits for awhile, get a battery maintainer not a charger. The maintainer will float the battery.

 

[mtaves]

Got the tractor started yesterday. Took the air filter off and ran a hair dryer into it. Cranked the heck out of the engine but still didn't take by the time the battery was getting low again. Put cables on the battery and was able to crank it until enough heat built up in the block to get it started. Ran the tractor straight for 6 hours after that so should be fully charged.

I did not have nearly this level of difficulty starting last winter. Something is definitely not working as well as before, even though this is a relatively new machine (built in 2009, only 400hrs operating time). How likely is it for a glow plug to fail with that little operating time?

 

[George2615]

Not sure of your brand but I had a Mahindra that went thru 2 sets of glow plugs by 400 hours. Of course they weren't covered by warranty. Some tractors I've had still had the original glow plugs after 30 years.
Easy to check with a volt / ohm meter.
Disconnect the wire that feeds the plugs. Connect a DC voltmeter (red lead) to the wire, (black lead) to ground and turn on glow plug switch. You should get a reading close to battery voltage. If that works then you need to check the plugs. Disconnect the buss bar that connects the plugs together, then check resistance of each plug between top terminal to ground. A zero reading means plug is shorted and bad, no reading means plug is open and bad, there should be some resistance reading. If you don't have a meter you can pull each one and test with a small 12V battery for a few seconds to see if it gets hot. Just don't get burned.

 

[mtaves]

Danocheese: confirmed the tractor does have a full radiator of fluid. Thanks for the specific recommendation on diesel treatment - that would have been one of my questions but have already received so much help here that didn't want to ask even more stuff.

George 2615: running a McCormick CT28 HST. There isn't too much info on the internet about common problems, but as you've laid it out I should be able to determine if glow plugs are indeed a problem here. I will try real hard not to burn myself.

 

[George2615]

Danocheese: confirmed the tractor does have a full radiator of fluid. Thanks for the specific recommendation on diesel treatment - that would have been one of my questions but have already received so much help here that didn't want to ask even more stuff.

George 2615: running a McCormick CT28 HST. There isn't too much info on the internet about common problems, but as you've laid it out I should be able to determine if glow plugs are indeed a problem here. I will try real hard not to burn myself.

Glow plug problems are similar among all tractors that use them. Tractors with glow plugs either have a some sort of timer circuit that applies voltage to them for a specified time or a manual button or key switch that keeps them heated per the operators discretion. So doing a search for glow plug problems or testing in general for any tractor would give similar results.
In my previous post I am assuming you will have power to the glow plug wire. If you do not you can check for a bad fuse. If fuse is good you may have a bad timer circuit.
I believe your CT28 was built by LS Tractor and has a Mitsubishi engine so if your dealer can't get parts you can get them through LS.

 

[cointoss]

First off I like your insignias at the bottom of your page Pilgram. Especially the last one.
You are on the right track. They all sound like marbles when really cold. Some may miss a time or two and smoke, also normal.
Just let them warm up good before putting any pressure on the motor.
Any diesel additive with anti gel properties is good. Everybody has their favorite brand. A "winter blended" fuel wouldn't be a bad idea either.
Battery warm is a good idea. Synthetic also good. A block heater is probably your best option in my opinion. It's not rocket science.
Take care brother...

That makes two of us on the insignia.

 

[oldpilgrim]

That makes two of us on the insignia.

Seems there are a few of us here......there seems to be several no matter where I go.

 

[David Devuono]

My bad, no time to read all the posts. If you have electricity for a block heater, go over to the autostore and get a battery blanket as well. For me, no electricity so I use a little buddy heater and a tarp over the tractor. 20 minutes its ready to start.