Cold start failure

[mtaves]

Having trouble starting the tractor in this cold (-30C / -22F) weather and hoping someone could shed some light on how to get things fired up without causing damage. I have a McCormick CT28 with only 400 hrs, equipped with glow plugs and block heater. Got the tractor started (just barely) yesterday when temperatures were only -26C, but today was a no-go, even with the tractor plugged in all night. Ether is one method I am aware of for giving a boost to cold start, but have heard it can also damage internal heating components like glow plugs or block heater elements. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Martin

 

[GManBart]

If you haven't already, I would switch to a lighter synthetic oil...something like a 0w40 or whatever the manual recommends for very low temperatures.

Aside from that, I'd make sure the battery is 100% charged (if you can put an inexpensive trickle charger on it over night, it will help), then cycle the glow plugs two or three times before you try starting. I'd also make sure the fuel is recent (they change the blend for cold weather) and not some you bought months ago.

You could also consider coming up with a blanket or tarp to wrap around the engine, and cover the bottom of the block/transmission....it will help hold the heat in from the block heater (check that the block feels warm and the heater is working while you're at it).

Is the machine kept outside, or inside? If it's outside, you may try coming up with a way to block the wind from blowing on it, which will also rob heat from the block heater's efforts.

 

[George2615]

All the things Gman mentioned plus check your glow plugs and / or glow plug timer. It's possible the timer or one or more glow plugs may have failed. You'll need to disconnect them and check each one with an ohm meter. With the main wire to the plugs disconnected you can check to see if you have power when the key is turned on. I've had glow plugs fail twice on my Mahindra and the last time replaced the timer as well.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Avoid ether or starting fluid. It can damage an engine if used in excess quantities.

Make sure that your block heater and your glow plugs are functioning properly. Normally you only need 3 hrs of block heater operation so I'm suspicious of your block heater. Check the breaker in the power source to make sure that you have power to the heater. If it's OK, check the heater terminals for continuity. Never have the engine running with the block heater ON as it can damage the heater.

ALWAYS START WITH THE CLUTCH DEPRESSED to reduce the load on the starter and the battery drain.

Do you have the correct lube oil for these temperatures per your owners manual requirements.

Are you using a winter grade diesel. Summer diesel can gel at 28F and no fuel, no start. Generally if the pump is fueling the injectors than there will be some white smoke and the smell of diesel fuel. Water in the fuel can freeze in the fuel delivery system and block it.

 

[mtaves]

Thanks to you both! In response to your comments:
-the tractor is inside so out of the wind
-the fuel was purchased early December, so likely is a winter blend
-lighter oil would definitely help in these cold temperatures
-battery was well charged when trying to start this morning. I stopped when the engine started cranking over slower, with still no sign of any ignition taking place. Battery is probably depleted enough now that a trickle charger would be a good idea.
-I will definitely feel the block to see if it is warm at all, though at -30 not sure if it will be "warm" enough for me to notice... How would I be able to check if the heater is working?
-Glow plug sounds like a good thing to check as well.

 

[mtaves]

Jerry/MT - I do get the white smoke so that confirms the fuel pump is doing its thing properly.

Thanks for the advice on ether - I will definitely avoid.

i think you might be onto something on the block heater. Will check that out.

 

[BAP]

Put a finger on the base of the block heater. At -30, you should still feel it to be hot, if not it is bad. Also, at -30, you will want it plugged in more that 2-3 hours to over come the cold. I would leave it plugged in all night.

 

[mtaves]

Well, I can rule out problems at the block heater. Put my hand on the block where the heater goes in and almost burned a finger off. Heater is working fine. Regarding the glow plugs: the dash light indicator comes on as normal, here the normal clicking sounds that indicate glow plugs are doing their thing, then light and clicking go off after about 5 seconds, all as normal. Repeating the glow plug cycle before trying to start results in progressively shorter cycle, which suggests to me that whatever senses and controls timing is still working.

Will have to sleep on this tonight. Fortunately I got enough snow cleared to go about normal activities and we don't usually get additional snow while it is this cold.

 

[jix]

Diesel engines require very high compression to start in cold weather. If the engine has a lot of hours on it, the valves may not be sealing well, lowering the compression ratio. If you have white smoke and hot block heater without a failure of the glow plugs, I would take a look at the compression. Some tractors have a compression release and if that is partly open, same problem..Won't start. Check that too. DO NOT USE ETHER IN A SMALL TRACTOR ENGINE>>>EVER!!..It can bend the conrods.

 

[r8nger]

I have found that , at those temps, additional fuel treatment is needed to prevent waxing or gelling. Normal fuel at the pump usually only cover you down to about 10 deg.. Get a quality fuel treatment and don't over treat either .too much can damage pumps and injectors .As far as ether is concerned,I would only use it if the air intake heater or glow plugs were disabled. I have seen guys blow the intake manifold right off of the engine with it.

 

[dieseleric]

put a space heater pointed torwards the engine for 30 mintues before you start it. To test glow plugs. Take a test light. Pay attention. Put the lead that has the clamp on the + side of the battery or something 12v. DO NOT try and cycle the glow plugs. Leave the key off. Take the test light and touch the end of the glow plug were the power would go. If the test light lights up bright. The glow plug is good. If the light is dim looking. The glow plug needs replaced.

 

[bigdeano]

I'd try jumpering the battery from a vehicle with it's engine running. The voltage needs to be as high as you can get it, and the cranking speed as high as you can get it to get maximum compression heat.

I had the same problem yesterday when I went to test run my diesel generator. Battery is 10 years old. It seemed to be cranking over fine but wouldn't start. I jumpered it from my pickup and it took right off. Lucky I tried it because the power is off this morning in western WA. Generator is humming away.

 

[jaotguy]

USE OF ETHER for starting diesels ...

it takes 2 people .....
one cranks the engine and gets it spinning in the right direction ... only after the engine is spinning , the second person squirts some ether into the intake ( short burst , NOT continuous ) ....

rods and engine damage usually occurs when ether is squirted in before the engine is spinning and the operator tries to cranks the engine afterwards ...... the ether fires before diesel fuels does and drives the piston back against the starter and crankshaft ... breaking / bending rods, cranks and starters.......

 

[DK35vince]

USE OF ETHER for starting diesels ...

it takes 2 people .....
one cranks the engine and gets it spinning in the right direction ... only after the engine is spinning , the second person squirts some ether into the intake ( short burst , NOT continuous ) ....

rods and engine damage usually occurs when ether is squirted in before the engine is spinning and the operator tries to cranks the engine afterwards ...... the ether fires before diesel fuels does and drives the piston back against the starter and crankshaft ... breaking / bending rods, cranks and starters.......

That would work on an engine with no glow plugs.
But the original posters tractor has glow plugs. I would not use starting fluid on that engine.

 

[CobyRupert]

So once started did it run fine?
For how long? Did you drive it around and work it? (i.e. Was fuel really getting through, or just enough to idle? Is this a starting issue, or a fuel (treatment) issue?)
Before battery went down, did it crank at a good speed? Is white smoke (un-burnt fuel) coming out when cranking?

Just because fuel was bought in December doesn't mean it's treated well enough. I've learned my lesson last year to never trust the distributor. Never, ever. I'd put even-odds that this is your problem if you haven't treated it yourself.
Good luck.

 

[DK35vince]

Just because fuel was bought in December doesn't mean it's treated well enough. I've learned my lesson last year to never trust the distributor. Never, ever. I'd put even-odds that this is your problem if you haven't treated it yourself.
Good luck.

+1.
That is some cold temperatures.
I'm betting the fuel wasn't treated well enough for those temps.

 

[holeycow]

the fuel is generally "full winter" (good to about 50 below) in Alberta by mid November. It certainly is in Northern Alberta anyway.... I bet it isn't turning over fast enough. When you get it running, change to 0W40 oil and I don't think you will have that problem again. The winter diesel is very "dry". It is best to use some kind of conditioner in it.

 

[doxford jim]

One thing not mentioned - your fuel filters! Are you sure they are clean ? If you haven.t done so already, I would swap the old one for a new filter - may be partially plugged with dirt wax etc. Also, have you tried checking that the injection pump is delivering fuel to the injectors? Have you determined that the fuel rack is not shut off or the stop pull still in the "stop" position. If it is, you will never start the engine until you push the shut off link back to supply fuel to the injection pump.
Also check to see if there is a shut off solenoid on your fuel supply. If the wire to the shutoff solenoid is disconnected you won't be able to start the engine. The wire should be connected to the solenoid for the fuel to be admitted to the pump.

I use "power service" fuel treatment in the white bottle - is called "artic" treatment or similar.

Post back and let us know how you made out - it is probably something simple.

 

[jix]

YEP, r8nger... And for me, that translates into a simple rule: DO NOT USE ETHER IN A SMALL DIESEL ENGINE...EVER!!!
(I know a fisherman that had a Detriot diesel (8v72) in a 42 foot wooden fishing boat.. he was at sea and his engine would not start, so he gave it a long shot of diesel right into the manifold, then he cranked it. The engine exploded and blew the crankshaft right through the bottom of the boats hull. It sank in the bay of Fundy. He was rescued five minutes later by another boat nearby that heard the explosion. He will not use ether anymore either.)

 

[jaotguy]

That would work on an engine with no glow plugs.
But the original posters tractor has glow plugs. I would not use starting fluid on that engine.

just wait till the glow plugs have cycled off.... then start cranking and .....

VW uses glow plugs on their diesels ... ether starts them at -40 when all else fails ...

the key is to have the diesel cranking ( spinning ) BEFORE using ether in short bursts

but as most have posted , look for the obvious first ... then fix/correct what is wrong, so you don't have to depend on "other measures"