Cold weather start, with glow plugs and block heater. Why does my tractor not start at minus 20 C?

[lpakiz]

They work the same way a light bulb filament works, but in slow motion.
When you supply 110 volts to a light bulb, there is an inrush of current thru the filament. There is unlimited amperage available, but as soon as the filament gets (white) hot, (micro-seconds) resistance builds and restricts how much current can flow thru the filiment. If it were not for this resistance, the filament would burn out, instantly.
Heat tape is designed so that the cooler the tape, the more current it conducts. When it gets hotter, resistance increases and less current flows. It self regulates, just like the light bulb, but much slower.

If I understand YOUR theory correctly, a frost plug element self regulates.
Why doesn't it just get warm (hot) and then restrict its current to a sustainable level?
Why does it burn out if not immersed?
Why does immersing it in water change anything?

 

[maxlashua]

Also make sure you have an additive in fuel like 911 or any type diesel fuel supplement for it wont con gel.

 

[ruffdog]

911 is only a POST gel treatment....not a gel prevention.

 

[Egon]

They work the same way a light bulb filament works, but in slow motion.
When you supply 110 volts to a light bulb, there is an inrush of current thru the filament. There is unlimited amperage available, but as soon as the filament gets (white) hot, (micro-seconds) resistance builds and restricts how much current can flow thru the filiment. If it were not for this resistance, the filament would burn out, instantly.
Heat tape is designed so that the cooler the tape, the more current it conducts. When it gets hotter, resistance increases and less current flows. It self regulates, just like the light bulb, but much slower.

If I understand YOUR theory correctly, a frost plug element self regulates.
Why doesn't it just get warm (hot) and then restrict its current to a sustainable level?
Why does it burn out if not immersed?
Why does immersing it in water change anything?

Designed like a heat tape Makes sense.

 

[metalbender]

My 2017 Massey 1742 had trouble starting below -25c, even with the block heater plugged in. Had the tech out to check, all tests were good. Seems as with all things nowadays, manufacturers go with the minimum required. My battery was too small for the effect of losing capacity when the temp dropped drastically. A battery blanket solved the issue for me. Blanket is plugged in all the time, block heater is on a wireless remote switch, turn it on from the house 4 hrs or so before I need the tractor. At -30 or colder, screw it, the block heater is on.

 

[CalG]

I wonder what the difference in battery performance would be comparing a 1 amp trickle charger to a battery heater blanket?

I use the charger . It plugs into the same cube as the lower radiator hose heater. 2 hours, and good to go even when it's C-O-L-D.

 

[Dmacleo]

-2 F last night, 5F when I went outside to start.
guess who forgot to plug battery tender in yesterday? yup...this idiot.
cycled glow plugs few times she would sputter but not start.
plugged tender and heater in and 10 minutes later tried it and turned 3 times and running with heat gauge showing warmth.
good to go no start fluids/jumps/etc needed.
but the thing is...if I had the tender plugged in it WOULD have started. cycling plugs was enough of drain it could not spin fast as needed. thats why I added block heater. for when I screw up.
10 minutes after tractor groaning to even turn over I had it running.

 

[PILOON]

Fortunately my CUT's battery space allowed me to install a much larger one.
Then I have a 300 w block heater.
When it is really cold I am plugged in 24/24.*
An intelligent battery maintainer is permantly wired in as well as an LED witness light (modified LED 'night light) so that I can confirm that power is at my tractor.
My fuel is always treated with an anti gell. (lived and learned)

Xmas eve (at -20 C) an idiot driver ended up at my back door and could not drive out due to my steep hill.
I hopped into my CUT and she fired up with but one glow plug cycle and since the engine coolant was already warm my cab was comfortable plus I was ready to roll as the engine was warm.

*OK, costs me a bit of electricity but for convenience and reliability but it is a small price to pay, besides electricity in Quebec is reasonable. Heck no worst than having left a few lights on overnight and LOL, that is offset by my now mostly LED household lighting.

 

[Dmacleo]

Fortunately my CUT's battery space allowed me to install a much larger one.
Then I have a 300 w block heater.
When it is really cold I am plugged in 24/24.*
An intelligent battery maintainer is permantly wired in as well as an LED witness light (modified LED 'night light) so that I can confirm that power is at my tractor.
My fuel is always treated with an anti gell. (lived and learned)

Xmas eve (at -20 C) an idiot driver ended up at my back door and could not drive out due to my steep hill.
I hopped into my CUT and she fired up with but one glow plug cycle and since the engine coolant was already warm my cab was comfortable plus I was ready to roll as the engine was warm.

*OK, costs me a bit of electricity but for convenience and reliability but it is a small price to pay, besides electricity in Quebec is reasonable. Heck no worst than having left a few lights on overnight and LOL, that is offset by my now mostly LED household lighting.

really not that much cost for electricity either. I have a 2amp tender/maintainer wired in

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07W3QSMF9

and I bet over a full late fall/winter/early spring season it costs me less than 10$ US.
have had the block heater in since Oct 2020 in this is first time I NEEDED to use it. used it once before as test. and only had to use it today cause of my own stupidity LOL

 

[Francis_Mulligan]

Jelled fuel? Try adding Diesel 9-1-1 and clear the fuel filter if that doesn't help.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

If you remove the air filter so you have direct access to the air suction inlet, stuff a couple of sheets of newspaper or similar up the air intake and set fire to them whilst cranking. Guaranteed solution in any weather.

Saw a guy using a propane torch fire up an old worn out crawler in 27 degree weather without glow plugs. He pulled the air duct shot the propane flame into the intake while turning it over and it fired on the third or fourth cylinder.

 

[ding beep]

-35*C here for several days/weeks at a time...

Brand new top-of-the-line Interstate battery...

Winter Diesel, Block Heater AND Battery Tender...

l even cycled the glow plugs several extra times...

CLICK< CLICK< CLICK< CLICK< CLICK< CLICK< CLICK

Of course it fired right up with the Lithium Ion portable power bank...that thing is a real life saver.

(Had to remove the air cleaner to reach the battery terminals *grumble, grumble*)

l'll definitely be shopping for a Battery Blanket next time we go to town.

Thanks for all the great ideas, tips and personal experience.

Warmer weather is only a few short weeks away!

Let It Snow, Let It Snow, Let It Snow.

ding beep

 

[thclimer]

I'm always amazed at how much the capacity of a lead acid battery is influenced by temperature. At -15C (5F) the capacity is reduced by 50% compared to the battery being at 25C (77F):

 

[ray66v]

-35*C here for several days/weeks at a time...

Brand new top-of-the-line Interstate battery...

Unfortunately, after decades of being a loyal Interstate user, and retailer, I have found they are not what they once were.

My last two, the one in my tractor, and the one in my car, were short lived. And, others I know have been disappointed.

NAPA legend battery, was always my second choice. I'm going to try those for a while.

 

[ding beep]

thclimer: That's an interesting graph; it explains a lot about lead acid batteries and cold climate.

So...it doesn't really matter if my battery has 400 CCA or 800 CCA...that puppy is 100% flat at -35*C

And...the best way to get ol' ding beep poppin' again is to warm up the battery.

Thanks for posting! ding beep

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

General Chemistry rule of thumb: For every 10-C increase in temperature the reaction speed doubles. So, if you drop 10-C, I’d expect the amperage will be about half. There is a specific temperature that the battery CCA is measured at, but I can’t remember what it is.

On my JDM tiny truck that I use to plow with, I installed shore power. I split that into two runs. One goes through a thermostatic switch, which closes and energizes the line at 0-C. The feeds the self adhesive oil pan heaters on the oil pan, transmission, and transfer case, plus a battery heating pad. The other line is on anytime the truck is plugged in, and connects to a battery tender, to keep the battery topped off. That solved all the cold start issues i as having with it.

Next summer, I’ll do something similar to the tractor. Probably still plow with the tiny truck, and use the FEL on the tractor to pick up snow from piles by the driveway, and move it so I have somewhere near the driveway to push it to.

Tip on running 120V power on vehicles. Buy a roll of hollow stainless steel grounding strap, and use it to sheath all the cable runs. Ground it to the frame at both ends, and connect the Equipment Grounding Conductor from the power feed to the frame of the tractor. Run the power through a GFI breaker. If you get a short the GFI will trip. You could use EMT, instead of the braided ground strap. But, then you would need to put a bunch of complex bends in the stiff tubing. The ground strap just runs where you need it to, and clips in with cable ties.

 

[thclimer]

thclimer: That's an interesting graph; it explains a lot about lead acid batteries and cold climate.

So...it doesn't really matter if my battery has 400 CCA or 800 CCA...that puppy is 100% flat at -35*C

And...the best way to get ol' ding beep poppin' again is to warm up the battery.

Thanks for posting! ding beep

The graph comes from a Canadian battery manufacture (Rolls Battery Engineering), here is a link to the site:

Temperature vs. Capacity - Flooded Lead Acid Batteries

I'm sure at -35C there is still some energy remaining in a battery.

The site also describes how the "life cycle" of a lead-acid battery is reduced at warmer temps but increase in colder temps. I guess its the nature of wet chemistry where an increase in temperature speeds up reactions and cooling something down helps to slow those reactions.

 

[RalphVa]

Get rid of 15w40 goo in the crankcase. If cranking speed is a minimum of 100 rpm with 15w40, it would be 160 rpm with 10w30 or 10w40 and 180 rpm with 0w30 or 0w40. Could be difference between starting and running and or starting and stalling or not starting. If cranking speed is less than about 100 rpm, it's a no start.

 

[metalbender]

Years ago, here at minor hockey league games, they had free booster services after the game. People would go to the game, and after drawing the battery down some on starting, their cold battery doesn't get enough time to take charge, well, the outcome is easy to figure.

 

[CalG]

Temp?

It's been a popular "trick" in my family back as far as I can recall (growing up in the Dakotas. where it was COLD last night). Run the headlights for about a minute on a cold battery. That draw "warms up" the electrons without drawing down the battery too much.

Sometimes it seems to work. Doesn't do anything about the cold air though ;-)