Cold weather starting

trlong · Sep 21, 2005

Wind enery? Perfect timing. There was an REV (Renewable Energy Vermont) conference in Burlington today (broadcast interview on local AM/FM). Blittersdorf (NRG), Northern Power, etc...all top NE and world experts there. I couldn't make it due to prior commitments. Yes, we have a lot of available wind energy...most viable at about 2500' level. Special interest groups from all over are fighting it but, with fossil fuels where they are, and going where they are going, their arguments are getting weaker.

Two years ago I took a class in Alt. Energy, way past post BSEE... (after being in Carson City, NV for a summer and seeing all that wind and solar going to waste). Also did a complete wind resource study for "Shelburne Farms".

Now, if I could design a wind turbine off my ROPS.... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif...just kidding.

catvet...look for an e-mail. Would really like to see your "off the grid" setup.

Tom

hayden · Sep 21, 2005

My tractor (B2910 - almost the same as yours) is in Vermont too, and lives in an unheated building.

I've never had even a hint of difficulty starting it in the most extreme temps. I don't pre-heat anything, and I don't have a block heater. Just let the glow plug do it's thing and it will start right up every time. From what I can tell, cold start problems are a thing of the past.

That said, the issue of winterized fuel IS CRITICAL. Either winterize it yourself with additives if you are using fuel purchased in mild weather. or if you bought the fuel anytime after Nov or so, it will already be winterized.

catvet · Sep 21, 2005

Always happy to talk off grid issues. Don't have wind power. Discussed with some one at one point and they weren't very positive. Also would have issue with neighbors since they just went through fight over cell tower in area. I know wind is a different kettle of fish but the major objections raised were visual impact. We manage to make about 90% of electric we use, make up the rest (winter time) with generator.

JoeL4330 · Sep 21, 2005

Off the grid may rule out an electric block heater, but there are alternative ways to heat the block. When I took my old mercedes 190 Diesel winter camping in Maine I installed a propane hot water heater in the heater hose (just a tee from the main radiator hose) and it worked fine ...an hour or two and block was warmed up. It took disposable propane cylinders, or a small bulk tank I had ...truckers used to use them, and I bought it from JC Whitney at the time ...presume they are still available. Per the owner's manual, sometimes cut the diesel with kero ...and sometimes a small amount of gasoline (which the manual suggested in small amounts, despite the glow plugs! but, I would not recommed today).

One other tip, since you are already a solar proponent, you might consider a small solar batter charger permanently installed on the battery ...a small trickle charge warms the battery, in addition to keeping the charge topped up, and really improves cranking current (in the day time, of course) but an insulating blanket made for batteries will preserve the value for some time.

My guess is that this is all overkill and you will beable to start, no matter ...then, there is always the bigger/double battery option.

There always seem to be a safety-minded poster in these threads, but as he seems to be absent, I wil mention the hazard of boosting a frozen battery

cowboydoc · Sep 22, 2005

Some invariably chime in that they don't have a block heater and their tractor starts fine at x degrees. By and large, you do not buy a block heater so your tractor starts, you buy one so it starts easier and takes less time to warm up.


Mike you are 100% right. All of our newer tractors will start down to 30 or 40 below. The older tractors forget it without plugging them in. Also most of the block heaters do not heat the oil. They heat the water in the system. It's not a good idea to heat your oil like that.

It's not the starting I use the block heater for, it's the cold steel with cold oil that I don't like. I just can't help but believe that it is less wear on the parts to be a little warmer than sub-zero We have done the wear tests and contrary to popular opinion we didn't see any difference at all in wear patterns over winters. I think, and this is just based on our oil testing of about 40 tractors, that it's one of those things that sounds good and the synthetic people use to justify the higher cost of oil.

cowboydoc · Sep 22, 2005

In the past some have drained the coolant and/or oil and heated it. 

Egon,

My grandfather had told me stories of when he was a kid in South Dakota. The only way you could attempt to start those tractors in the winter was to drain the oil and coolant at night. Take it in and heat it up on your stove and the put it back in. You MIGHT be able to start it then if all the tractor gods were on your side that morning. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Egon · Sep 22, 2005

Did that for cars too. Many times the team was hitched up tp pull start the car! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Batteries then were not what they are today.

Egon

trlong · Sep 22, 2005

cowboydoc,

Obviously, I have no empirical data, such as your study. However,

 ( "... contrary to popular opinion we didn't see any difference at all in wear patterns over winters. ) 

...Just seems counter intuitive. Although I am used to hard data in design verification tests, from what I have observed in my limited starting of the 4115, Yes, it will start without hesitation. However, as with every vehicle I have started in sub-zero (F) in the past 30 years in VT, the exhaust smoke, rattling, hesitation and lack of power until the "temp gauge" is at normal, leads me to conclude (probably erroneously) that the warmer motor from a block heater is a happier motor. It's probably just a comfort factor... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Tom

P.S. [...as with old Model T's, you can always carry a bucket of coals from the coal or woodstove out and place it under the oil pan. Gauranteed to warm it up. Also, good chance you'll be trying to collect on fire insurance, if you have it /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif.]

cowboydoc · Sep 22, 2005

Just seems counter intuitive. 

trlong,

I completely agree with you. We did quite a bit of testing a couple years ago when we were looking at going synthetic. When we did the oil tests we didn't see any more/less wear patterns that when we had used regular oil over the winter. Alot of our tractors can't be plugged in as there is no power where some of the cattle are kept. It was our thinking that those tractors would start easier and would show less wear. When the tests came back there was no difference and starting was no different either.

ByronBob · Sep 22, 2005

My data suggested that wind was a good complement to PV. Some people attach them to garages and such to keep the asthetic look up. But if PV does 90% them why worry.
PV in Vermont?? Would have never guessed. Your winters are worse than mine, but being near Erie and Ontario were always cloudy.