Cold Weather tricks

[Leighdavis]

My 422 would not start in 15 degree weather replaced spark plugs and still would not start, I found ice in the fuel line and filter was blocked I cleared that out and it started right away

 

[davesisk]

Interesting idea. I'm not sure just providing a bypass path for the hydrualic oil would be good enough. Since it's an open-center system, the only resistance it's seeing now is pushing the oil through the hoses and valves, right? And in theory, the hydrostatic drive pump doesn't even do that...if the treadle is centered the oil is never forced out of the pump. For the gear pump, the oil is forced through the hoses and valves then back to the reservoir without doing any work. I suppose pushing it through a much shorter set of hoses would lead to much less resistance. I gathered from an earlier post that the majority of the resistance seems to come from the hydro-static drive pump...I guess just spinning the fixture that holds the pistons in the cold thick oil is high resistance.

In the other thread I started before I saw this one, I was thinking of possibly replacing the couplings to both pumps with some sort of centrifugal clutches. That way you could crank the engine with no resistance from the pumps, then when you increase the throttle, the pumps would engage. The only problem with this idea is that the clutch connecting the hydrostatic drive pump would need a way to "lock it"...otherwise you wouldn't be able to bleed the HS pump by unplugging the spark plugs and cranking the engine to slowly turn the pump.

Dave

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

<font color="red"> My 422 would not start in 15 degree weather replaced spark plugs and still would not start, I found ice in the fuel line and filter was blocked I cleared that out and it started right away
</font>
Leigh: I haven't gone back and reviewed the whole thread, but your post may be the first mention of water/ice as the culprit. We all should have thought of it earlier, since a little water in the fuel is far from unusual, and ice sure will plug a filter.
A filter change and a bit of dry gas is probably a good idea for anyone having slow start problems.

 

[MossRoad]

Open center!!!! DOH! You are correct. I blush in shame /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[davesisk]

No blushing necessary... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Just out of curiosity, does your IH have open center or closed center hydraulics? I'll bet it has closed center because I *think* bigger machinery usually has closed center. To my understanding, this is because they tend to have more hydraulic cylinders, etc., that would be used simultaneously, and open center generally restricts you to one or two simultaneous independent operations because two or more combined generally exceed the relief valve settings, etc. (You've probably witnessed this when trying to turn and raise the bucket simultaneously, etc.)

Dave

 

[MossRoad]

I can't remember... I'll have to check. I'm pretty sure they are open center.

On the PT, I get lift lock when I have the steering wheel cranked all the way to one end or the other.

 

[dpotter]

If Amsoil is used a heater will not have to be used.

Thanks,

Danny Potter /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[MossRoad]

Why don't you send me 10 gallons of that stuff gratis so I can do field tests for you? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Just kidding. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Better yet, send it to Paul where it actually gets cold. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[pajoube]

Best ship in a heated box so that I can pour it out. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
PJ

 

[MossRoad]

It's a balmy 21 degrees here this morning. We have a winter weather advisory issued(no kidding... they expect winter weather in winter) from 1PM this afternoon until 4AM Friday morning. I guess after that winter is over /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

On a lighter note...
I put the half AMP trickle charger on the tractor for a couple of days. The other morning I went out at 5 degrees, removed the charger and gave it a spin... fired up almost instantly. So, I suspect the battery isn't holding a good charge for a long period. Hopefully the trickle charger will keep it topped off for the rest of the winter and I'll see how it goes over the summer. Then, next fall, I'll forget about it and the first cold snap I'll be replacing the battery while thinking of this post! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

David - You are clearly getting good starting performance. Have you done anything with fuel additives, spark plug types or recent replacement, or anything else that might make yours a bit different from Hans's? His has more hours, but should be the same engine.
It sounds as if the Robins on the 422 have quite different starting performance with new coils. Are you aware of any change in the coil or electronics of the Kohlers?
The various posts show the consistent problem of high drag in the hydraulic fluid keeping the starter revs too low to start. Obviously, thinner fluid, such as Amsoil THF or 0W-? synthetic would help. Heaters depend on location, and apparently are best on the pumps and engine oil pan. Presumably 0W - ? synthetic in the engine would help, as well. Additives to prevent ice in the fuel will help in some cases. A good battery is essential. Good battery wires haven't been discussed much, but I've often seen great improvement by installing bigger wires and making sure the connectors are all clean.
There are more suggestions in the thread, but none really explain why some engines, such as yours, simply start better even without heat. I suspect that the spark plugs are good, and the coil and ignition electronics are just working better. If they're any different from those with trouble, we should try to identify to better units. Any thoughts?

 

[Old_Hickory]

Slowly pour about 10 gallons of hot water across the engine then start it.

 

[pajoube]

I have tried to be proactive this winter instead of reactive. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Seems if I plug in the heater when the engine is warm does a great job. If I start up the tractor every 3 or 4 days and warm up the engine I have no problem. But forget, starting is sure a pain. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
PJ

 

[bubenberg]

Yes, to the annoyance of winter as you said: </font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="red"> But forget, starting is sure a pain. </font>
PJ )</font> but what would we talk about if there were no problems /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[MossRoad]

The only thing I can think of is I have Mobil1 for engine oil. That's the only thing I've done that can explain easier cranking of the engine. Everything else is stock as I bought it. I've never pulled the plugs. I changed the engine oil filter back when I switched to Mobil1. I've always performed the scheduled maintenance at the intervals that Power Trac and Kohler specifies, sometimes a little earlier than recommended. I use stock Power Trac hydraulic filters. The hydraulic fluid is whatever came with the unit... I suspect it is 10W40. I've wondered about switching that to Mobil1 as well, but that's big $$$. Could be worth it if it prolongs the life of the machine. I have never had to add any fliuds to anything in 2 years. All levels are right where they should be. It only has about 132 hours on it.

The battery terminals are still coated with that greasy stuff from the factory and when I charge the battery I put the + clamp on the + terminal and the - clamp on a nut on the side of the engine.

I've washed it a few times and keep the engine compartment as clean as I can without being weird about it.

Maybe it is the Mobil1 engine oil. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[Trev]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I have tried to be proactive this winter instead of reactive. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Seems if I plug in the heater when the engine is warm does a great job. If I start up the tractor every 3 or 4 days and warm up the engine I have no problem. But forget, starting is sure a pain. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
PJ )</font>

Can you guys explain to me why all these starting problems occur? I have never had to turn my key for more time than it takes to turn it and release it.. that is to say, a twitch of the wrist.. and the little Yanmar 3-cylinder diesel is idling smoothly at 800 RPM. I wait a few minutes, bump it up to about 1200, go in the house for a cup of coffee, and then go do my work.

When I first got the tractor (JD4300, circa 2000) the farmer neighbors told me to get the heaters that my dealer was telling me not to bother with. They said sure, it will start fine when it's new, but a few years down the road?

So, what is it that makes some tractors start fine in the sub-zero, and others utterly fail to crank? I find it hard to believe that we have such different experiences. I used the standard battery until just a month ago or so, and then replaced it. Keep a Battery Tender on it now, and keep the block and hydraulic heaters running if I think I might need it within the next 8 hours or so. But even without the heaters, it starts within one second.

What makes this difference? An old tractor should start as well as a new one, no?

Bob

 

[MossRoad]

I think you need to ask, "A new tractor should start as well as a new one, yes?" /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[PTRich]

The only thing I do different is use Mobil 1 in the kohler also. Maybe this is the reason, I have never had a problem starting.

 

[rdbrumfield]

frosting the plugs is caused by the vacuum of the piston when sucking in the cold air into a cold engine. Same as icing up a carbuerator venturi. Either is a good starting aid, but I like to use a small propane bottle you get at the hardware store to give the engine a little heat into the intake. It usually doesn't take much and is much easier on the rings. Take the filters out first and just warm the air in the can and crank while doing so.

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

<font color="red"> frosting the plugs is caused by the vacuum of the piston when sucking in the cold air into a cold engine. Same as icing up a carbuerator venturi. </font>
Randall: I can be convinced, I guess, but the plugs are a long way in, with a low-pressure intake manifold condensing both water and fuel. Is frost on the plugs really a demonstrated phenomenon, or is it really plug fouling with liquid? Although there is somewhat reduced pressure during the intake stroke, the compression stroke follows immediately, with adiabatic heating even if it doesn't light. I haven't tried to research any tests, so I certainly could be way off. I did a little research on carburetor ice years ago, because I experienced it. Mine was on a warm high-humidity summer day, where the difference in temperature at the venturi was a lot, causing both condensation and freezing. I've not seen a study showing actual ice farther in the intake or in the cylinder, but I was reading for that. Do you know of any?