Colvert???

[Jag]

Kelvin -- Check my post earlier on this thread about the plastic pipe.

 

[Jag]

A few things I forgot to add about the plastic culvert pipe. The guy who told me to go with the plastic pipe was a construction inspector with the state highway department for the last twenty years. He said that is all he would use on his property and it will around longer the he will. I will put in three more in the next two weeks. With the way that the plastic culverts handled the overweight timber trucks it is the only way to go...

 

[Harv]

From what I've read about the plastic culvert pipe, it is not inherently stronger than steel pipe. Its crush strength is dependent entirely on proper installation and backfill.

Don't get me wrong -- it's terrific stuff. It's much lighter and easier to handle, lasts longer and if you get the smooth inner surface it has better flow with less drop. One caveat -- since it is lighter, it has more of a tendency to float. Back to that proper installation again.

Now I have to go back and find my notes -- I don't recall it being cheaper than the steel pipe. If you're right about that, I'll be changing my plans right away.

Also, I only found it in 20-foot sections and I need 10-footers. The bright side there is that it is easily cut with a circular saw.

 

[Harv]

While digging through my notes I found a couple of interesting URL's which include a nifty chart and diagrams explaining how to install culvert pipe:

http://www.qualityculvert.com/instlgde.htm

http://syllabus.syr.edu/CIE/SKBHATIA/Cie584/tom/source5.htm

Now, prior to this thread I had decided to use steel for my little project, even though there's Tract to like about the HDPE (High Density PolyEthylene) pipe. My decision was based, in part, on articles which include the following quotes -

"HDPE promotes lower cost based solely on pipe cost. To get a true picture, you must consider pipe cost plus installation cost, including backfill."

"Because HDPE pipe has little strength of its own, it relies almost completely on the structural capacity of backfill, which often needs to be imported to the site. Backfill requirements are also greater for HDPE pipe, normally a minimum of one foot above the top of the pipe."

"In many cases, wider trenches are required to provide proper side support for HDPE pipe."

"HDPE pipe manufacturers fail to mention that due to the lighter weight of HDPE, flotation can also be a serious problem. This, coupled with the potential for misalignment and damage during backfilling, certainly does not reduce installation costs."

Sounds a little biased against plastic pipe, for sure, but they do make some interesting points. Bottom line for me was that steel pipe sounds more forgiving of installation by amateurs like me. Also, I thought I might be able to get away with a little less cover using steel.

However, now that I have been made aware of this "crusher run" limestone stuff, I think the score might be evening back up. I would use this as backfill for either kind of pipe, and the end result might be a toss-up.

So now I'm re-evaluating the whole thing again.

 

[Thomas]

Soory for the long responds to your question Ed.
I purchase two 12"x20' for $35.oo at equipment auction,and one of cuverts had 2" damage end the other was new.

If one has euipment auctions in there area they should check them out,for over the years I got some heck of a deals./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Take care and stay /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif

Thomas..NH

 

[MarkV]

Ok, here are my beginner questions about culverts. Is the plastic culvert pipe flexable? Can you make a 45 degree turn with it? Are there angle corners made for metel or plastic pipe?

You have figured out I need to set a culvert through a ditch that makes a turn. Something in the 10" size will be plenty but needs to be heavy enough to handle a trailer with compact tractor on board.

 

[DVerbarg]

Harv,

I never installed the HDPE culvert but have seen a few around. Most of them after a few years had a problem with the two ends curling up and water then pooling at the inlet end. This may have been due to a bad installation, I don't know. Just thought you might like to know so that you could look into that also.

DavidV

 

[roysallis]

Harv,
Last fall I had two 48 inch x 30 foot plastic pipes installed. Yes, they were expensive. They were connected together since I wanted to have a wide span across the creek. My road was coming down a fairly steep hill and I wanted to level it out so I had to build up the road over the creek. That is one reason for the 48 inch pipes. The other reason is to handle the large runoff during heavy rains. The creek is a wet wet weather creek and there is very little water in it most of the time, especially this summer. Churt was used to build up the road about 4 feet on both sides of the pipe and on top of the pipe. I think this will provide plenty of side support and also prevent flotation. If you are going to install a 12 or 18 inch pipe I would think that flotation would not be a major problem with a foot of top and side fill.

 

[Harv]

Roy -

Wow! That's one humongous culvert!!! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

Certainly flotation is more of a problem with the larger pipes -- greater displacement per weight, etc. I was simply making the point that plastic floats better than steel. Doesn't necessarily mean it's a serious problem.

For one of my culverts I am planning on using side-by-side 18-inchers 'cuz I need to keep the whole thing shallow (that 12" of cover is already making these things taller than I would like). You mentioned that you connected your 2 pipes together, and I have heard elsewhere that that's the right thing to do. Can you explain to this amateur ditch-digger why it is important to connect them?

 

[Harv]

DavidV -

Interesting about the curled ends. Apparently that is a common problem with the HDPE 'cuz I now notice that some suppliers offer galvanized metal end pieces for that pipe.

Another blow for the lower-cost argument, eh?

 

[DVerbarg]

Harv,

Regarding why it is important to connect the pipes:

If the pipes are not joined together you will end up with a "blow hole" (what the locals call them). The blow hole is what is created when water erodes the dirt where the two pipes join. As the dirt is eroded, assuming that there is fill on top of the join, it will continue to fall into the small crack at the join and will eventually end up with a hole at the surface. These blow holes can develop very quickly during a rainy season and the only way to fix them is to dig up the pipe and add the proper connection pipe. Every spring and fall the farmers in this area can be seen out in the fields fixing this very problem with the drain tile in the ground. Drain tile has the additional problem of the dirt that came from the blow hole accumulating in the drain tile and inhibiting or totally blocking the flow of water. This typically does not occur with a culvert because of the short length and water flow.

DavidV

 

[Harv]

DavidV -

I guess I was thinking that by facing the inflow of the culvert with sufficient stone that erosion wouldn't be a serious threat. You have convinced me that it's worth the small cost and extra effort to tie the pipes together.

I'd rather leave the blow holes to the great white whales. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Anonymous Poster]

2 years ago I installed 120' of 4' smooth wall plastic pipe. This is the main spillway for my pond. I had 2 30" metal pipes but the beavers keep blocking them and they were starting to rust through. The plastic pipe is under my drive and seems to be doing well. We did have some problem installing the stuff, we couldn't seem to get the dirt packed around the bottom of the pipe. We had all the pipe in place but had only covered the first section. The water keep tunneling under the pipe. We finally poured a 8' wide x 8' deep concrete collar around the top end and that took care of the problem. Since it's a smooth wall pipe set running down hill the kids have found it makes a great water slide.

 

[gordon]

Harv thanks for the links here is one that covers roadways and goes into some about ditching and grading.http://www.ruralhometech.com/fr/index.htmHope this helps
Gordon

 

[PBMAX]

OOOPS!!! I new I forgot somthing it's a 12" metal pipe...Thought about it later while I was out sight seeing----AA working....Been out for 1 1/2 weeks since I posted the question so ya'll gemie time to catch up...Thanks for all the help up front....BTW they started digging my basement,hit sandstone at 2' ouch.....Forman thinks he might can diggit with a track hoe but if not we may need to blast a couple of times...Guess thats one way to move into the nay-bur-hood with a bang....I better get reading see ya'll

Colvert was a fat finger thing....Was here at the office and my net time is short......Roy thanks for the answer on Churt....
Lil' Paul

Laziness is the Father of invention.../w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by PBurns on 9/19/00 12:35 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[PBMAX]

I considered the plastic pipe but the county wants metal...so I got metal...The pipe will actually lay in the county's ditch so ya know how it is...The ditch is about 3' below the lawn so I put the pipe in and pushed dirt over it temperarely <--is that a word...for direct access...unfortunatley the pipe is shallow in the ditch...and 12" of cover plus concrete would be more than I would like...It would put an arch on the drive making it difficult to turn into and I could not digg out the ditch if I wanted to the bottom is solid rock...The county recommended the ovel pipe (METAL) but in my area every one was waiting on a shippment so I bought what was available...Might want to use what I have some place else and buy the other...Next how do you join to metal pipes...??? my local co-op sales angled end pieces but no one has any thing to couple with....locally...the "Blow-hole" as some one mentioned is some of the reason I asked...I thought about cutting a piece off one end with something and using screws to attach the 2 pieces, then put tar or something over it...would rather not though...Starting to wish I'd gone plastic..../w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Lil' Paul

Laziness is the Father of invention.../w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[roysallis]

Paul,
I guess things are different in Chilton county. When I needed a culvert I went by the county highway department and paid them ($230.00) for an 18" x 30' corrugated metal pipe. They installed it and it is level from the road to my driveway. They did all the work.
Roy

 

[Bird]

Up until this past year, in our county, and I understand others, if you needed a culvert, you went to the county and paid for the pipe and they delivered it. Then if it was on a county maintained road, they installed it, covered it, etc. and if you lived on a state maintained road, after the county delivered the pipe, the state crew came and installed it. No charge for installation either way, but I saw in the news media that the state, at least, was discontinuing that practice, since they were doing it for free in some counties and not others. So I think now, the state or county will tell you what size has to be used, and the property owner has to pay for it.

Bird

 

[scruffy]

PBurns, you use a metal 'collar' to join the sections of pipe. I assume you got the corregated steel pipe, if so, then you will need the same size (diameter) of collar to use. It is nothing more than a section of the pipe, sliced at one point with 90 degree brackets bolted to or welded onto, two or more draw bolts run through the flanges or brackets. The collar is spread, slipped over one end of the pipe, and then the other end is slipped into it. The bolts are then tightened down snuggly. Suggest placing brackets to the side at approximately a 30 degree angle from perpendicular. Also, I have used a sealant (such as tar, etc) on the ends of the pipe to prevent the "blow hole" from developing anywhere around the connection. WARNING: If you decide to make your own, be extremely cautious of the toxic fumes generated when cutting galvanized pipe with a torch, or welding said galvanized pipe. Some of our board welders can fill you in on that much better than I can.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by scruffy on 9/20/00 00:57 AM.</FONT></P>

 

[glennmac]

Roysallis,

How many inches of fill did you put on top of your 48" pipe? Did you run level from bank to bank across the creek, or did you mound up the fill higher than the banks? Can you bend the pipe, or did you have to run it all in a straight line? Do you think you chose the right diameter for your creek and how is it performing?

Glenn