compact TLB vs. full size TLB

[MarkV]

This has been a real interesting discussion with great points made by both camps. What keeps coming to mind for me is whether even a full size TLB is right for the job. The four major projects I see are a basement to be dug, a 750’ drive through mature woods, building sites cleared of mature trees and graded, plus a septic installed. For site clearing and the drive even you full size TLB users have to admit that job is better done by loggers and tracked equipment. A TLB, regardless of size isn’t very efficient for building a road bed through forest land compared to a dozer. The foundation and septic certainly can be done with a TLB except that the word rock keeps entering into the discussion. Now there is rock and there is ROCK, so with out knowing the site we can’t really judge. When I built in the N. Georgia mountains the granite we hit while building the drive, foundation and septic wasn’t going to be moved by a TLB and was a struggle for much bigger equipment. Also make sure homeowners are allowed to install their own septic systems, many areas you have to be licensed.

I guess my point is before buying a piece of equipment you should at least bring in some excavation contractors to evaluate what you’re doing and get some pricing. These guys work the area and have a good idea of what to expect under the top soil. It would be a shame to buy something to accomplish tasks that you end up having to hire out anyway.


MarkV

 

[jmfox]

What keeps coming to mind for me is whether even a full size TLB is right for the job.

I think when you need a big azz dozer, there is no substitute. In my scenario, the ASV SR80 will do most of the jobs, but when it comes to a mile of road and a 3 acre pond it's dozer time. I did put in trails for purposes of work related
access, even a nice creek crossing, but for the kind of road required to handle two way traffic for 5 homes a big dozer is the most efficient. On the flip side I use my industrial tractor for the smaller jobs even though the SR80 could do it. The Ford 4000 uses less gas and there is less maintenance. When the tractor starts working too hard I use the compact crawler. The smaller size of the compact crawler allows me to cull out the thorn trees, the suckers and dead wood on the treed portion, which the Ford 4000 or the large dozer could not do. One more thing, when it comes to the big dozer, you best be or have an experienced operator.


jmf

 

[Builder]

No "big azz dozer" can dig a foundation or septic system. A small TLB cannot set a septic tank, either.

I think what the OP is looking for is the tool that will do the most items on his to-do list. While no one single machine will do all of them efficiently, a full size TLB will do more of them than any other one tool.

 

[jmfox]

Actually, I think it is better to hire a dozer and operator. For miscellaneous chores, TLB's are relatively easy to operate and lend themselves to the do it yourself spirit. As machines get bigger and more focused they tend to require more experience. I can't imagine a handyman renting a dedicated scraper or motor grader or a D10 dozer to do a little work in the backyard. So consider your experience when deciding on the right machine.

jmf

 

[mike69440]

This has been a real interesting discussion with great points made by both camps. What keeps coming to mind for me is whether even a full size TLB is right for the job. The four major projects I see are a basement to be dug, a 750 drive through mature woods, building sites cleared of mature trees and graded, plus a septic installed. For site clearing and the drive even you full size TLB users have to admit that job is better done by loggers and tracked equipment. A TLB, regardless of size isn稚 very efficient for building a road bed through forest land compared to a dozer. The foundation and septic certainly can be done with a TLB except that the word rock keeps entering into the discussion. Now there is rock and there is ROCK, so with out knowing the site we can稚 really judge. When I built in the N. Georgia mountains the granite we hit while building the drive, foundation and septic wasn稚 going to be moved by a TLB and was a struggle for much bigger equipment. Also make sure homeowners are allowed to install their own septic systems, many areas you have to be licensed.

I guess my point is before buying a piece of equipment you should at least bring in some excavation contractors to evaluate what youæ±*e doing and get some pricing. These guys work the area and have a good idea of what to expect under the top soil. It would be a shame to buy something to accomplish tasks that you end up having to hire out anyway.


MarkV

From persoal experiece I agree. I thought I would be in good shape buying an 18,000 lb excavator with thumb and dozer blade. The excavator supplements my L39 that is less than 1/2 a real BH. The Excavator match a full size BH for strength, is much faster digging, and the dozer blade pushes well cosidering.

My 'build a farm project" is the equivalent of putting in a freaking subdivision. I just spent another near $20,000 hiring out dozer, excator, trucking, and blasting work. This included renting a articualted Terex off road dump truck. It would carry easy twice what a 10 wheeler could hold and drive places a road truck could never go. Over 100 loads later, we still did not get done in a week what I wanted. I should have run a gravel pit, but doubt I could have got the permits. I still keep my equipment busy, as I can do clean up and small site work, so the area does not look like a strip mine.

Up here in the northeast, when large contractors build a something as small as a mini-mall etc. in a few weeks, the contractor brings in stuff they use to build an interstate hy-way! That is how they deal with rocks. Even a full size BH is only good as a universal tool, if you have the time to do the work.
If you have a big project, give it up and hire out.

 

[jfh0jfh]

I think people will try to convince you to buy machines that will do you no good and force you to buy or rent others.

One thing I can say with certainty: A properly equipped big TLB alone will do the entire job for you. Unless you hit scary rock, and even then, you can get a hammer.

None of the other aforementioned machines *alone* will do the entire job for you.

That would be all the info one should need to make an informed, efficient decision.

I got by on the farm for ~ 10 years with just a full-size TLB. Built a house and several outbildings; cleared roads; fixed 2 ponds; cleared fields. The only thing I couldn't do was serious grading. I finally bought a dozer to do that.

 

[jfh0jfh]

Excuse me, but.......are you serious? No really, what's your level of experience buying full size TLB's other than "calling a local dealer?"

ANY idiot can ask ANY price he wants. That doesn't mean all used full size TLBs are a rip-off.


Also, not all used equipment is "junk". My Dumptruck and backhoe were both bought used, my dumptruck is 17 years old and let me tell you, it's been excellent. My Case had 1100 hours on it and it runs/feels like a brand new machine. The Case dealer you talked to is an idiot. I paid $49K for a LOADED '05 Case 4x4 ex-hoe with cab and only 1090 hous on it. So I don't know how you're gonna pay $79,000 for a used Case with 500 hours on it.
Crap, mine was $79,000 NEW in '05 , They're about $81,000 now, so how can some nit-wit expect to get $79,000 for a Case when it's used for 500 hours?

Please tell me what "new cab and air XYZ unit will cost 30-$35K"?

The cheapest new, full size backhoe is a TEREX. A new cab 4x4 ex-hoe TEREX costs $61,000. Ask me how I know. Even an Open ROPS 4x2 std hoe with NO features will cost over $50K.

But please, tell me where to get a new XYZ unit with cab/air for $35K.

I've heard a couple of SE dealers (NC I think) are selling new Terex TLBs 4x4s for < $40K; demos w/ < 100 hours for $35-36K. I see ads for leftover 2006s and 2005s.

I watched NH (cab, ext-hoe, 4x4 < 1000 hours) sell for $33-35K at Ritchie Auction 11-Sep. New 580 Super Ms $58-60K.

TLBs seem cheap right now. I just tried out an 01 Case 590 SL cab, 4x4, ext-cab, 2700 hours ~ $28-29K. This is in EC Ohio.

 

[Builder]

I've heard a couple of SE dealers (NC I think) are selling new Terex TLBs 4x4s for < $40K; demos w/ < 100 hours for $35-36K. I see ads for leftover 2006s and 2005s.

I watched NH (cab, ext-hoe, 4x4 < 1000 hours) sell for $33-35K at Ritchie Auction 11-Sep. New 580 Super Ms $58-60K.

TLBs seem cheap right now. I just tried out an 01 Case 590 SL cab, 4x4, ext-cab, 2700 hours ~ $28-29K. This is in EC Ohio.

I think what you have to watch is the options they come with. When I demo'd TEREX, they wanted $59 for a loaded 760 4x4 cab with pilot controls. I can't see how you're going to get a new TEREX for under $40K with the same equipment, but if you could, BUY IT. They're not as good as CASE, CAT, DEERE, but they're not that much worse, either.

I can't touch a SuperM equipped the way mine is for under $75 without having demo hours on it or some other catch.

The price you got on the '01 Case 590 sounds high. I was able to find 590 4x4's cab/air/xhoes 2000-3000 hrs for ~ $25-26K.

I found a CAT416CIT 4x4 cab, X-hoe, tool carrier, no A/C, 1200 hrs, ex cond at a CAT dealer for $26K !!

 

[jfh0jfh]

I think what you have to watch is the options they come with. When I demo'd TEREX, they wanted $59 for a loaded 760 4x4 cab with pilot controls. I can't see how you're going to get a new TEREX for under $40K with the same equipment, but if you could, BUY IT. They're not as good as CASE, CAT, DEERE, but they're not that much worse, either.

I can't touch a SuperM equipped the way mine is for under $75 without having demo hours on it or some other catch.

The price you got on the '01 Case 590 sounds high. I was able to find 590 4x4's cab/air/xhoes 2000-3000 hrs for ~ $25-26K.

I found a CAT416CIT 4x4 cab, X-hoe, tool carrier, no A/C, 1200 hrs, ex cond at a CAT dealer for $26K !!

2006 TEREX TX760B BACKHOE, STARTING AT $51,900More Details \& Photos (912) 447-0585. CCS EQUIPMENT IN YOUNGSVILLE NC (AUTHORIZED TEREX DEALER) fully equipped 4x4 Terex xhoe TLBs < $40K

The 1st is an ad; the 2nd is what I've heard. A friend is talking to another place in NC who's saying $37-38K for a new 2006 leftover. There are Terexes and NHs everywhere for great prices. I've decided against them.

At the 11-sep Ritchie auction 580 & 590 SMs sold for mid-$50s to mid-$60s. ~20 units. ~50 to a few hundred hours. 4x4, ext-hoe. Some had AC. Some sold as unused. Ride control or other things? I don't know. Rental units? Problem machines? Flood units? 2006 leftovers? I don't know. But the dealer (across the street from the auction) told me that some were just overstock new units. https://www.rbauction.com/arow/frame_menu.jsp?T=Search

Now, your price of $25K on a 590 SL 4x4 xhoe w/ 2K hours is WAY better than anything I've seen. I'm seeing those w/ 2500-3500 hours ~ $32-35K so I'm assuming I can get them for high 20s. I just went in and looked and $25K is list on SLs w/ 45-5500 hours; and some SKs (Machinery Trader). $36, $25, $26, $37K - 4 examples from Traderonline - SLs w/ 4K hours.

The best I've found so far is a 655D 4wd xhoe cab 3700 hours for ~ $20K. I think that's a little high but it's the only machine I've found that I like at all. If I could get a 590 SL 4wd xhoe 2000 hours $25K I would buy it (assuming it ran and looked lke 2000 hours). Even better, if one w/ a cab & AC is $25K I should see OROPS units for $22-23 and that's what I'd prefer. I'm seeing Ks for that kind of price.

Where in PA are you? I'll look in your area and see if there's anything cheap near you.

 

[Builder]

There's a CASE dealer in Vineland NJ that has CASE 590 4x4's with Xhoe, cab w/ AC for the mid 20's, maybe mid-upper 20's back last spring. They had 3 or 4. Those were the ones I saw. Lots of machine for the buck.

Just make sure you need that big of a machine. My 580 FEL 8' front bucket has no problem picking up a full heaped load of wet soil or broken 'crete. The backhoe does anything I need.

The only reason I'd get a 590 (and my CASE dealer thought the same thing) is to set very large tanks or if you need a wider, more stable machine when the stabilizers are down. I think the extra 9 HP is marginalized by the heavier weight. I'm pretty sure most all the other specs are the same.