compact TLB vs. full size TLB

[Builder]

I can see the advantages of using a excavator/dozer combo, but I think since I'm not really in a rush, this may be the best approach for me:
Now, where do I learn more about full size TLBs? Is there a tbn for backhoes? I'll start by looking through this forum. I'm sure there's plenty of good info here.

Like Coopers said, Heavy Equipment Forums is a place to start. It's a small site with more "kids" (wannabees/keyboard excavators) than needed, but there's also some true excavators there that can help.

Best thing for you to do is write down your needs: How deep will you dig? What type of digging? How much weight will you need to lift? What are your expectations? What is your budget? etc., then pick out the best machine.

The mistake I read with the most consistency is guys buy too SMALL of a machine (me included). I keep finding myself upgrading in size, capability & comfort in trucks & equipment. That will cost you money & lots of time spent searching for a bigger piece if you have to do it twice.

I've read your needs and believe it or not, know more about what you want to do than you know.
Buying an L-48 would be cost the same as a big used TLB and the work would seem darn near impossible.

I like Mike's input. It sounds like he started a job similar to what you're doing and discovered lots of big ROCK. He adapted and bought an excavator because the small TLB wasn't enough. Make sure you know your property well enough to pick the right machine. If you buy a big TLB and hit rock, you can get a rock hammer for it.

 

[JPCjr]

I'll check out heavy equipment forums, thanks.

I was planning on buying a new L48, although that is really more than I wanted to spend.

I looked around last night at FS TLB, and you're right there are plenty of used ones out there for reasonable prices.

I have no doubt that you know more about what I'm trying to do that I do. That's why started this thread and I'm now pretty convinced that the L48 is not the right tool. And yes, a big attraction of a FS TLB is the ability to use a rock hammer, which I may need.

I kind of like White Sharks approach. A tracked skidsteer and a small excavator. Hmmmm... What are your thoughts on that?

 

[jmfox]

I kind of like White Sharks approach. A tracked skidsteer and a small excavator. Hmmmm... What are your thoughts on that?

I vote yes. With that combination you will have the right tool for the most jobs.

jmf

 

[EddieWalker]

How much money is in the budget for the tractor?

The problem you run into with the full sized backhoes is the lack of the three point hitch. This was really an issue for me when I was trying to decide what to buy. I had a certain amount of money to spend and thought I wanted one machine to do it all. That turned out to be impossible.

With $30,000 I bought a used 1998 2wd Ford 555E backhoe for $18,000 and a new 35hp Century 4wd CUT with a 6ft bush hog, 6ft box blade and 12 post hole digger.

With those two tractors, I can pretty much do anything on my land. There is no tree too big that I can't take down, and no hole that in time, I can't dig. I created my 3/4 acre pond with the backhoe and spent many months hauling dirt with the front bucket one yard at a time.

If I had more money and new then what I know now, I would have bought a backhoe with 4wd. If I had a little more money then that, I really want a 4 in 1 bucket to pick up those trees and bush piles. And if I really had some extra money, a cab would sure make life allot more comfortable!!!

35hp is about right for mowing and maintaining the land. More power is always nice to have, but I'm not realy needing it.

The biggest differnece that I didn't see mentioned in this thread between the full sized backhoes and compact ones is power. For about the same money, you are either buying 80hp or half that. You are also buying hydraulic systems that are not even close to each other in what they can handle. The full sized machine can dig a 2 foot wide backoe bucket through just about any soil type with ease. The compact will get it done with a 12 inch bucket and struggle with an 18 inch one. Digging times with the hoe buckets will probably be about four times as fast, if not more with the full sized hoe.

The same is true with the front loader. One yard might sound like allot of dirt until you start moving hundreds and thousands of yards of dirt. Then it makes a HUGE difference how much you can move at a time. That 1/3 yard bucket on the CUT isn't just going to take three times as long to move becasue teh bucket is smaller, it's going to take longer to do because the tractor is smaller and it can't keep up speed wise.

When you're done with the full sized machine, you can sell it for almost what you paid for it. Four years after buying mine, I just saw one for sale with similar hours for $1,000 more then what I paid for it at the same dealer I bought mine.

Eddie

 

[Builder]

I vote yes. With that combination you will have the right tool for the most jobs.

jmf

Not a bad idea, but inevitably, it will cost more. You can get a nice cab/air 4x4 f/s BH with extendahoe for $25-$30K.

You would have a tough time finding an excavator that digs as deep as an big TLB extendahoe and a skid steer with a bucket that lifts 7,000lbs for under $25-30K. Then there's the issue of 2 engines, 2 transmissions, 2 fuel tanks, more tires, tracks, filters, hydraulic lines, etc. to buy, maintain & insure.

I'd also doubt highly both or either the excavator or the skid steer will have cabs with A/C.

Another thing that's nicer about the big TLB over the excav/skid steer combo is the backhoe has a more spacious cab and a much higher top speed when moving from one part of the property to the other. A skid steer has a brutal ride over rough ground and a trackhoe is slow as molasses. The big TLB can also work in rain & snow much better than an open skid steer. Almost any attachment you can put on a skid steer can be put on a gig TLB.

 

[jmfox]

Frankly, I'm glad I made my choice these things could go on forever. Two machines would also mean a better chance of always having one running. Also, carring around a backhoe and front bucket hardware for every single task, whether you need them or not, is a pain in the butt after awhile. Disconnecting a backhoe from a TLB is not exactly a 2 minute job.

jmf

 

[coopers]

You would have a tough time finding an excavator that digs as deep as an big TLB extendahoe and a skid steer with a bucket that lifts 7,000lbs for under $25-30K. Then there's the issue of 2 engines, 2 transmissions, 2 fuel tanks, more tires, tracks, filters, hydraulic lines, etc. to buy, maintain & insure.

...is the backhoe has a more spacious cab and a much higher top speed when moving from one part of the property to the other. A skid steer has a brutal ride over rough ground and a trackhoe is slow as molasses. The big TLB can also work in rain & snow much better than an open skid steer. Almost any attachment you can put on a skid steer can be put on a gig TLB.

Very true. These are great combos on other types of jobs but for a large piece of property it wouldn't be the best choice. When you're looking for a compact excavator I wouldn't go below 10,000lbs and the machine that I use as an example is a Kubota 121. The 121-2's are the older models and they're still pushing $20K. In my opinion that size is pushing it for 10 acres. You'd want bigger. Then you have the skidsteer you need to purchase as well and they still are high in price.

Like Eddie mentioned you'll find yourself moving a lot of yards of material and a one yard bucket is bad enough why go smaller with a skidsteer bucket or a CUT bucket. Now if you have the money-I like Eddies set up-I would buy a used backhoe and a tractor with a three point hitch. All these ideas are great, and we understand you're not in too terribly a big hurry but you also don't want to take 5 years on a 1 year project. I have this attached picture of one of the two backhoes I used on a 10 acre nursery doing ALL kinds of tasks. The extendahoe and thumb additions to a backhoe are a MUST. My (then) boss made this thumb himself. He did order it from Amulet but it was right when the San Fransisco earthquakes hit (shows you how old the machine is and how long he's had it) so they sent all their thumbs down there to help with cleanup, so he just made the thumb based on their plan it worked great.

At any rate, I'd start comparing between large TLB's (and I think you're doing that now) and keep in mind extendahoe and later addition of a mechanical thumb (and I recommend this type...Amulet, it functions better then other mechanical thumbs out there IMO). Cabs are always nice but you'll survive. I've been in nasty weather before and you just deal with it. If you find yourself falling behind or just coming up to a project that seems an excavator would be better suited for then you can rent one, it's very simple.

Blake

 

[machmeter62]

Exactly. I can tell you right now, if you try to do what I think you're gonna do with an L-48, you'll just end up hiring or renting bigger machinery to do the work while your 35-40K L-48 just sits on the porch & watches the big boys get the job done.

Then when there's an opportunity for it to do some work, you'll use it, but I get the idea that's not what you set out to do.

Or you can buy a big TLB that probably won't have to sit on the porch, it'll always be able to be in the game unless you hit HUGE rock.

What size of a "slush fund" for break-downs resulting in on site repairs, service calls, and transportation expensives for a used full size TLB's, would one set aside? I have talked to others that purchased used for similar projects; but maybe they were "snake-bit," or maybe abused the tractor? I understand FS TLB's are pricey to repair if internal problems develop; and can destroy your bank account!?

 

[JPCjr]

Thanks guys.

I think I'm going to focus on a FS TLB and a smaller tractor later for 3pt hitch work. That seems to be the best option.

As far as a budget, I was prepared to buy a new L48, but that was really a little more than I wanted to spend. It would be nice if I could spend around $30k or even a little less on the TLB. I'm also curious to see the answer to machmeter62's question.

I would rather get a newer machine then have a cab. I'm sure a cab is nice, but in general the weather here isn't that bad. The winters are tollerable, as we've hardly had any snow the last couple of years, and the summer heat doesn't really bother me.

 

[Builder]

Thanks guys.

I think I'm going to focus on a FS TLB and a smaller tractor later for 3pt hitch work. That seems to be the best option.

As far as a budget, I was prepared to buy a new L48, but that was really a little more than I wanted to spend. It would be nice if I could spend around $30k or even a little less on the TLB. I'm also curious to see the answer to machmeter62's question.

I would rather get a newer machine then have a cab. I'm sure a cab is nice, but in general the weather here isn't that bad. The winters are tollerable, as we've hardly had any snow the last couple of years, and the summer heat doesn't really bother me.

When i bought my Case, i was lucky that it still has 3 yrs of powertrain warranty left. The "bumper to bumper" warranty expires in a few weeks.

If you're really scared of a big repair, and your budget was $40,000 for a new L-48, then buy a $35,000 case/deere/cat and set $5,000 aside for repairs. My guess is you won't need them. These full size TLB's are tough as nails, especially Case/Cat/deere.

You could spend less and get more hoe for the money if you were willing to try a JCB, terex or Komatsu. They cost less because they have a percieved inferiority in terms of resale or quality. You can generally get those 3 brands for 5-10K less than a cat/case/deere and set aside even more $$$ for repairs.

That might be a great fit for you. I really can't see you destroying any big TLB with what you're doing. JCB & Terex makes really tough, albeit "tier-2" backhoes that you can buy for peanuts.

Look at this Terex 760 for $32,500. Makes an L-48 look like a sandbox toy. 2003 TEREX 760 For Sale at MachineryTrader.com

1997 JCB 214 II For Sale at MachineryTrader.com

Bargain Komatsu: 2003 KOMATSU WB150 For Sale at MachineryTrader.com