Comparable or good $

[Cynth]

We are new land owners in Mississippi and have 25 acres. Bush hog, moving huge round bales, dirt moving, a small bit of farming needs...basics.
Local Kubota store has a used 5140 for 22.5k with 500 hrs or a 7060 new $39k no cab
Is there a comparable tractor we should look at or is the pricing too high? Are we heading in the right direction?

 

[jeff9366]

"Huge" round bales I interpret as 1,400 pounds or more. For safely moving and stacking 1,400 pound round bales with a FEL bale spear a 5,027 pound bare weight open station Kubota M7060 is about right. In addition to the 1,400 pound bale you will have a 1,400 pound FEL hanging off the front; total 2,800 pounds, compounded by leverage. If you do not need to STACK 1,400 pounds bales, just to MOVE bales, a 4,000 pound bare weight tractor will serve, utilizing a Three Point Hitch mounted bale spear.

70-horsepower is sufficient to run a ten foot wide, two spindle Rotary Cutter which will mow 4 to 4-1/2 acres per hour. With fueling and breaks it will take a day to mow 25 acres. I would want a cab. (I presume you know a Rotary Cutter is less than optimum for hay production.)




Local Kubota store has a used 5140 for 22.5k with 500 hrs or a 7060 new $39k no cab

There is no Kubota 5140 model. Inform us of the series ( Grand "L" or "M") and correct model number.



Are we heading in the right direction?

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Tractor weight is more important identifying compact tractor capability than tractor horsepower.

We are new land owners in Mississippi and have 25 acres. Bush hog, moving huge round bales, dirt moving, a small bit of farming needs...basics.

The most efficient way to shop for tractors is to first identify potential tractor applications, then, through consulataton, establish bare tractor weight necessary to safely accomplish your applications. Tractor dealers, experienced tractor owners and TractorByNet.com are sources for weight recommendations.

Bare tractor weight is a fundamental tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used. Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range.

A quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is important for tractor neophytes. Most new tractors are delivered with a glitch or two requiring correction. My kubota dealer is six miles away. I feel my local dealer continues to add value to my equipment after eight years. Dealer proximity is less important for those experienced with tractors and qualified to perform their own maintenance.


When considering a tractor purchase, bare tractor weight first, tractor horsepower second, rear axle width third, wheel/tire ballast fourth.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.​

 

[Sportsman762]

Not sure if I agree with Jeff on everything he states as it depends on what you want to do with the tractor on if weight vs hp vs lift is most important. For example I have found horse power to be a key factor when mowing is a major task, for example the Kubota B7500 I used on a friends tree farm was under powered for a 5' rotary cutter and 5' finish mower but weight was never an issue. I found the same issue with the Ford 3940's I used in college to mow with a 14' finish mower. In Op's case I believe loader lift capacity, might be first consideration, and weight would be second. But this is my opinion, not that Jeff is incorrect, just that I have a different view of things based off of my personal experiences.

To help OP I am not sure what huge round bales are. The most common large bale is a 5x6 that would be 5' wide and 6' tall. More common is 4x5 but some folks do 4x6 bales. You need to tell us what the dimensions your huge round bales are for us to be able to help. Assuming these bales are hay bales, not haylage bales, which weigh a lot more.

A 5x6 bale weighs around 1,600 lbs when coming off the field. However if the baler is a fixed chamber soft core baler the bale will weigh less.

http://beeffax.tamu.edu/files/2013/09/2012-Bale-weight-how-important-is-it-Banta-E-319-.pdf

Based off of this chart a 5x6 legume bale can weigh up to 4,300 lbs but a 4x5 will weigh up to 2,700 lbs.

https://fyi.extension.wisc.edu/forage/files/2014/01/Weigh-Your-Hay-Now-Save-Money-Later_fact-sheet.pdf

If the tractor is a Kubota M5140 with a LA1153 loader then its rated at 2530 lbs at the pins were the bucket attaches when the cylinders are in the "power position" or 2320 lbs when the cylinders are in the "height position". A 4' wide bale will have the load center at 24" and a 5' bale will be at 30". This means that there is a good probability that the machine will not be able to lift a 4x6 bale unless it is very fluffy and light. If your looking at a Kubota M7060 with a LA1154 it has the same lift specs as the LA1153 but will be slightly more stable due to the base weight less loader being 5,027lbs compared to the M5140 at 4,550 lbs.

If you buy a tractor with a good margin more lift than you need you will find it much easier and safer to move bales. A tractor with more lift will weigh more, and therefor be safer. If bale moving is your main goal I would most likely invest in wheel weights and some good rear ballest such as a bale spear with a second bale on the back.

A quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is important for tractor neophytes. Most new tractors are delivered with a glitch or two requiring correction. My kubota dealer is six miles away. I feel my local dealer continues to add value to my equipment after eight years. Dealer proximity is less important for those experienced with tractors and qualified to perform their own maintenance.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.​

Jeff offers excellent advice on buying a tractor based on dealer support, and do not buy too small of a machine.

My favorite bale mover for 4x6 bales was a spear on the bucket of a Ford 655D backhoe, with 7200lb lift capacity, a torque converter transmission, and a nice high seat location to see over the bale it was nice.

 

[Cynth]

"Huge" round bales I interpret as 1,400 pounds or more. For safely moving and stacking 1,400 pound round bales with a FEL bale spear a 5,027 pound bare weight open station Kubota M7060 is about right. In addition to the 1,400 pound bale you will have a 1,400 pound FEL hanging off the front; total 2,800 pounds, compounded by leverage. If you do not need to STACK 1,400 pounds bales, just to MOVE bales, a 4,000 pound bare weight tractor will serve, utilizing a Three Point Hitch mounted bale spear.

70-horsepower is sufficient to run a ten foot wide, two spindle Rotary Cutter which will mow 4 to 4-1/2 acres per hour. With fueling and breaks it will take a day to mow 25 acres. I would want a cab. (I presume you know a Rotary Cutter is less than optimum for hay production.)




Local Kubota store has a used 5140 for 22.5k with 500 hrs or a 7060 new $39k no cab

There is no Kubota 5140 model. Inform us of the series ( Grand "L" or "M") and correct model number.



Are we heading in the right direction?

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Tractor weight is more important identifying compact tractor capability than tractor horsepower.

We are new land owners in Mississippi and have 25 acres. Bush hog, moving huge round bales, dirt moving, a small bit of farming needs...basics.

The most efficient way to shop for tractors is to first identify potential tractor applications, then, through consulataton, establish bare tractor weight necessary to safely accomplish your applications. Tractor dealers, experienced tractor owners and TractorByNet.com are sources for weight recommendations.

Bare tractor weight is a fundamental tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used. Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range.

A quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is important for tractor neophytes. Most new tractors are delivered with a glitch or two requiring correction. My kubota dealer is six miles away. I feel my local dealer continues to add value to my equipment after eight years. Dealer proximity is less important for those experienced with tractors and qualified to perform their own maintenance.


When considering a tractor purchase, bare tractor weight first, tractor horsepower second, rear axle width third, wheel/tire ballast fourth.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.​

Thank you. This is very helpful

 

[Cynth]

Not sure if I agree with Jeff on everything he states as it depends on what you want to do with the tractor on if weight vs hp vs lift is most important. For example I have found horse power to be a key factor when mowing is a major task, for example the Kubota B7500 I used on a friends tree farm was under powered for a 5' rotary cutter and 5' finish mower but weight was never an issue. I found the same issue with the Ford 3940's I used in college to mow with a 14' finish mower. In Op's case I believe loader lift capacity, might be first consideration, and weight would be second. But this is my opinion, not that Jeff is incorrect, just that I have a different view of things based off of my personal experiences.

To help OP I am not sure what huge round bales are. The most common large bale is a 5x6 that would be 5' wide and 6' tall. More common is 4x5 but some folks do 4x6 bales. You need to tell us what the dimensions your huge round bales are for us to be able to help. Assuming these bales are hay bales, not haylage bales, which weigh a lot more.

A 5x6 bale weighs around 1,600 lbs when coming off the field. However if the baler is a fixed chamber soft core baler the bale will weigh less.

http://beeffax.tamu.edu/files/2013/09/2012-Bale-weight-how-important-is-it-Banta-E-319-.pdf

Based off of this chart a 5x6 legume bale can weigh up to 4,300 lbs but a 4x5 will weigh up to 2,700 lbs.

https://fyi.extension.wisc.edu/forage/files/2014/01/Weigh-Your-Hay-Now-Save-Money-Later_fact-sheet.pdf

If the tractor is a Kubota M5140 with a LA1153 loader then its rated at 2530 lbs at the pins were the bucket attaches when the cylinders are in the "power position" or 2320 lbs when the cylinders are in the "height position". A 4' wide bale will have the load center at 24" and a 5' bale will be at 30". This means that there is a good probability that the machine will not be able to lift a 4x6 bale unless it is very fluffy and light. If your looking at a Kubota M7060 with a LA1154 it has the same lift specs as the LA1153 but will be slightly more stable due to the base weight less loader being 5,027lbs compared to the M5140 at 4,550 lbs.

If you buy a tractor with a good margin more lift than you need you will find it much easier and safer to move bales. A tractor with more lift will weigh more, and therefor be safer. If bale moving is your main goal I would most likely invest in wheel weights and some good rear ballest such as a bale spear with a second bale on the back.



Jeff offers excellent advice on buying a tractor based on dealer support, and do not buy too small of a machine.

My favorite bale mover for 4x6 bales was a spear on the bucket of a Ford 655D backhoe, with 7200lb lift capacity, a torque converter transmission, and a nice high seat location to see over the bale it was nice.

It seems you have made me feel i need educated!! Thank you. With this explanation we definitely need the 7060. We cant afford more than that. We buy hay but need to move them and they can be 800-1200 lbs.
The hp is more important to us in the long run as we have bermuda grass we need to cut and it is thick! No trees but the brush can get 5 feet high.
We were recommended to get a 2 spear bale lift as opposed to a 3 spear due to the idea we can lift pallets of feed easier.

 

[Sportsman762]

We were recommended to get a 2 spear bale lift as opposed to a 3 spear due to the idea we can lift pallets of feed easier.

I would get a dedicated pallet fork. It would not be hard to over stress a bale spear. Also the flat forks on a pallet fork will be gentler on a pallet than a spear. With a spear you might damage a pallet. Also you will be unable to move the spears in or out to move different shaped pallets and other objects.
See this thread for inspiration

What else do you do with forks besides lift pallets?

Is it worth it to buy a set of skid steer forks that I might be able to get on the cheap? They will fit the skid steer loader adaptor I had built for my Deere 5520--85 hp-- . The forks are the HD version and I think either 3000# or more and 48" long. Problem is, I only lift a few pallets a year...

www.tractorbynet.com

Also I would get some sort of heavy attachment for the back of the tractor if your unloading bales. Jeff is right that you do need weight to utilize a loader to full effectiveness.

 

[jeff9366]

We buy hay but need to move them and they can be 800-1200 lbs.

It is understood you need to move them. Do you need to lift bales in order to stack them two or three bale rows high?


An open station tractor with a bare weight of 3,700 to 4,000 pounds can lift and move 800 - 1,200 pound round bales using a bale spear on the Front End Loader and stack bales two high on level ground if you purchase a FEL with sufficient lift capacity 500mm forward of the pivot pins. However, the tractor will feel very tippy to a neophyte operator lifting bales to stack.

An open station tractor weighing 3,700 to 4,000 pounds can transport 1,200+ pound round bales safely with a Three Point Hitch mounted (rear) bale spear but can only lift bales a few inches. Transport but no stacking. The tractor is stable because the bale weight is low and bale weight is carried on the large, rear tractor tires, which do not pivot/steer.

This is the mid-weight category of compact tractors, a high volume segment. Every tractor manufacturer produces an economy model and a deluxe model in this weight range. Horsepower options range from 40-horsepower to 60-horsepower in this weight range.

A tractor with a bare weight of 3,700 to 4,000 pounds is suitable for actually working 10 to 25 acres of farm acreage. Working acres, not total acres.


For safety most recommend a 5,000 pound bare weight tractor for moving and lifting bales heavier than 1,200 pounds using a bale spear on the Front End Loader and for safely moving/stacking 1,200 pound bales by inexperienced tractor operators using a front bale spear. A 5,000 pound bare weight tractor can stack round bales at least three high.

A tractor with a bare weight of 5,000 pounds is suitable for actually working 20 to 40 acres of farm acreage. Working acres, not total acres.

 

[jeff9366]

Are there comparable tractor brands we should look at ? Are we heading in the right direction?

(posted June 2021)​

Other brands? Models to look at or avoid? Buy new or used?

The design of the Three Point Hitch tractor has been marketed in the USA since 1939 -- 82 years in 2021.

The Three Point Hitch tractor design is generic.

Kubota and Deere have most of the market through 6,000 pound bare weight tractors. But this Kubota/Deere domination is regional.

The up and coming compact tractor brands are Korean: Kioti, LS and Branson. There are other Korean brands. You have to critically assess dealer stability while shopping minor brands.

Korean manufacturing labor is paid 50% of what Deere pays its union work force. Japanese manufacturing labor is paid 70% of what Deere pays its union work force. Labor costs strongly influence tractor prices. Kubota is the gold standard in the compact tractor category. Deere dominates in 'Big Ag' tractors.


We have the following brands within an hour of us.

• Kubota
• LS
• TYM
• KIOTI
• Massey Ferguson
• John Deere

I know that a lot depends on the dealer and their willingness to help, but should I stay away from any of these brands?

Start with the nearest dealer and work out.

Transporting a tractor for service is expensive and inconvenient, whether you trailer it or the dealer trailers it.


CREDIT: 'FELIXEDO'

"It has been touched on a couple of times, but not directly as a buying factor.

Every major make has a machine that will do the job(s) you want. Check out your nearby dealers, and go with one you have confidence in.

A great machine with no support nearby is a hassle to repair and maintain.

And a good machine can't make a lousy dealer into a good dealer."

 

[jeff9366]

Horsepower is more important to us in the long run as we have bermuda grass we need to cut and it is thick! No trees but the brush can get 5 feet high.


Mowing is the only power-hungry tractor application you have specified.

Inform us of the number of acres you will mow. Inform us of how often you intend to mow.

With mowing information we can better recommend appropriate horsepower.

Right now I assume you will mow 25-acres but I may be incorrect.



The weather is Mississippi is similar to the weather in Florida.

If you will spend days mowing a cabbed tractor is worthwhile: fewer bee stings and spider bites, less pollen and mold, lovely AC and heat.

If you will not spend hours mowing an open station compact tractor should be wonderful in Mississippi.