Comparing Botas with LS rebranded (Case)

[wampum]

Everyone seems to have an opinion on each brand. I personally bought a Kubota MX 5100 from Messicks. I have used it to its limits with zero issues. I think how a dealer treats its customers has a huge influence on the reputation of the brand tractor they sell.

For example, My Kubota showed up with R-4 tires. I was not thrilled with that but I didn't specify that I wanted Ag tires but i had to take delivery to dig my family out of the house from the 4ft. of snow we got hammered with in 3 days. I called them and asked what it would cost me in the spring to get the Ag's put on. they said "zero". I told them by that time i would have 100+ hours on the R-4 tires. Messicks said "No problem". The came and picked up my tractor (3 hours one way) switched out the R-4's for New Ag's and even split the cost to fill the rear tires. They then returned my tractor within a week.
This whole experience makes me 100% satisfied with my Kubota thanks to a great dealer...

Having owned tractors most of my adult life,and born and raised on a farm where I learned to drive a John Deere "A" at about 8 years old. I knew exactly what tires I wanted going in and told them.
Most dealers I have dealt with will bend over backwards to make you happy,that is just good business.It is true however that Deere and Kubota dealers can do this easier then most other dealers. After all you have just spent thousands more for their product,so they have more profit margin to play with. At times they seem to be really treating you good when in reality if they were treating you well they would have given you a better deal in the beginning.
The truth sadly is that you could have gotten a lot more tractor for less then you paid for the Kubota. You actually could have bought the AG tires with extra rims and had both with the money you could have saved buying the LS.
I am not bashing your Kubota,if you are happy with it great its a good machine. All I am saying is the pendulum is swinging and companies like LS have caught Kubota and are passing them and selling more tractor for less money.
I grew up I was a Pontiac man,I loved Pontiacs. About 1972 I started to realize that Pontiacs,where just Chevy clones,and where not of very good quality.This in my opinion is what is happening to the big 3 tractors. They are living on their reputation and selling a cheaper product at a high price. Eventually it will catch up to them.

 

[LittleBlueTractor]

Some tech questions because I don't have manual yet. Does the S4s have EGR? Is it a 4 value head? Is the head AL. Is this a common rail design? Is it a twin cam? How many hours before first oil change? What oil do they recommend? Do you change out gear oil at first service too? Anyone use bio in the LS and what does the book say? Is there PCI? This should get things going. I'm into diesel.

HS

I don't know nuthin' about no diesels but maybe this will help:

http://www.mitsubishi-engine.com/documents/brochures/SmallIndustrial/mhi small engine brochure.pdf

I was able to find complete Mitsubishi SL engine manual on-line after much searching. Also, I got my dealer to order me the S3010 Service manual from LS Tractor USA for around $75 plus shipping. It came in a loose-leaf binder so I bound it in something more substantial to keep from accidentally pulling out the pages. It was worth the money to me. I don't have the user's manual with me but as I remember the first change of both the engine oil and hydraulic fluid is at 50 hours. Can't remember the specs on the engine oil, but remember well that the hydraulic fluid is Conoco PowerTran at about $120 per 5 gal. can. Still wondering if I should go with it something cheaper. At least the hydraulic fluid capacity on the S3010 is only 9 gal. so it wouldn't kill me. It's just hard for me to spend that kind of money if I can't figure out if it really necessary. I called the dealer and it's not what they use if they do the service.

 

[rocknrod]

... I researched the engine and found the S4s ... S4s have EGR? Is it a 4 value head? Is the head AL. Is this a common rail design? Is it a twin cam? How many hours before first oil change? What oil do they recommend? Do you change out gear oil at first service too? Anyone use bio in the LS and what does the book say? Is there PCI? This should get things going. I'm into diesel.

HS

I researched the engine for my R4010:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/ls-tractors/192544-sticky-needed.html
I think if you do the same, we should make a maintenance sticky.

 

[LittleBlueTractor]

Some tech questions because I don't have manual yet. Does the S4s have EGR? Is it a 4 value head? Is the head AL. Is this a common rail design? Is it a twin cam? How many hours before first oil change? What oil do they recommend? Do you change out gear oil at first service too? Anyone use bio in the LS and what does the book say? Is there PCI? This should get things going. I'm into diesel.

HS

Same song, second verse:

http://pdfservicemanual.com/download/http://www.mhimee.nl/action/getEngineAttachment?id=183

 

[houstonscott]

Wow great information. Looks like the S4s is old straight forward diesel. What does that mean. Well in short it's not a new high pressure diesel like in German cars. It has a governor and high compression. The pistons are of new design and are most of the reason for low fuel use. I can't see if there is EGR but it looks likes to me there is no EGR. I many ways this is good, no electronic's to fail and no major pollution stuff to worry about. What you didn't get. Much more power and economy. What did we get, an engine that will run along time, and I see know reason why bio-diesel would be a problem if you want to run that in some percentage. You will not have to run the very expensive oils for ESP diesels.

HS

 

[slowzuki]

You are talking about the economy NH model, I'm not up on the new numbering system but they make at least 4 NH 70 hp models so its a bit hard to make a blanket statement. Most NH models are like Cadillac's in comparison but not all. Just like Kubota make a low cost L series and a couple of low price M series.

The 70hp New Holland tractor (Canadian model anyway) has 4 cylinder Iveco diesel, exact same engine as LS 7010, loader has approx. 900lb lower lift rating and no rear remotes and 1 year warranty and at least $10000 more (December 2009).

When I went to local NH dealer he said that comparing NH to LS is like a cadillac versus a VW. Well I guess he didn't have his facts straight. Salesman never called me back from NH dealer with a firm price, I had already made up my mind by then to buy LS but it is funny now that the NH dealer will be selling LS tractors with New Holland stickers on them.

 

[scesnick]

The truth sadly is that you could have gotten a lot more tractor for less then you paid for the Kubota. You actually could have bought the AG tires with extra rims and had both with the money you could have saved buying the LS.
I am not bashing your Kubota,if you are happy with it great its a good machine. All I am saying is the pendulum is swinging and companies like LS have caught Kubota and are passing them and selling more tractor for less money.
They are living on their reputation and selling a cheaper product at a high price. Eventually it will catch up to them.

Actually, I did do my homework before buying. I looked at the Montana, JD, Mahindra and a few others. I was fully ready to buy the Mihindra 4530 but they were out of stock and couldn't get me one for 3 weeks. Then I looked at the Kubota on a whim. Turns out the Kubota had 5 more HP, was turbo'd and was $3,500 cheaper than the Mahindra.
I know everyone has their opions about which tractor is the best. But, I don't think i will have a problem re selling my Kubota if I ever decide to sell..

 

[Gary Fowler]

I will let my heirs worry about selling (or not)my LS. It will still be on the farm when I am gone I'm sure. If I dont retire soon so I can actually use it a bit more, it may still have the new smell in the cab.

To change the subject a bit without starting a new thread, can anyone comment on their breakin period requirements. On the P7010, it stated to break it in under full load, dont let it idle for long periods and vary the speed if I remember all of the wording. It kinda surprised me that it didnt want you to go easy on it for the first few hours although every new tractor we bought when I was growing up, we hooked to as big a disc as it would pull and went to work with it, didnt baby them at all and they all lasted pretty well into the 10s of thousands of hours and still ran well. We only traded up in HP not because they quit running.

 

[wampum]

Actually, I did do my homework before buying. I looked at the Montana, JD, Mahindra and a few others. I was fully ready to buy the Mihindra 4530 but they were out of stock and couldn't get me one for 3 weeks. Then I looked at the Kubota on a whim. Turns out the Kubota had 5 more HP, was turbo'd and was $3,500 cheaper than the Mahindra.
I know everyone has their opions about which tractor is the best. But, I don't think i will have a problem re selling my Kubota if I ever decide to sell..

I also looked hard at the Mahindra 4530,got a price of exactly $20,000.00.I agree with you that right now the Kubota has a better resale,along with the Deere. I look for that to change as time goes on. Resale was probably at the bottom of my list. I turn 63 this year and have no intention of selling my tractor before they put dirt on me.I don't care what it brings after I am gone.

I am cheap,I'll admit that,Kubota makes a good tractor,Deere under 50 hp to me is over rated. I also like my tractor, I am glad you like yours. But for the money I feel I got just as good a tractor as the Kubota for thousands less and 50 HP with out the turbo. Which I like,because the turbo to me is just something else to go wrong.I also got draft and duel remotes for no extra. I also did not buy the Mahindra.

 

[dgl24087]

Just a tidbit info for comparison shoppers out there. The 70hp New Holland tractor (Canadian model anyway) has 4 cylinder Iveco diesel, exact same engine as LS 7010

NH has Iveco engines because Iveco is a division of Fiat, who also happens to own CNH.