Price Check Comparing some Kioti estimates

[Dawgrin]

Hi all,

I have been a forum lurker for over a year now, but this is my first post.

First off, thanks for building this great community and helping out tractor newbies like myself. We have about 25 acres in SE Indiana and have been here for almost 2 years now. I have just recently convinced my wife that getting a tractor would mean getting done more things on the property that she (and I) want to get done. I have been pricing tractors on and off for a while now, but I have very little info on Kioti prices. I asked for some estimates from a couple dealerships in my area and this was the result.

Kioti Comparisons - Google Sheets

Some of these are quite different pricewise. Are these prices fair for the tractor and options? Should I be considering other options?

Thanks for taking a look!

-Jon

 

[Wellarmedlamb]

Welcome! I've been researching tractors for months. I'll be getting a backhoe so you can figure $6k+ for the backhoe alone.

My quotes were:

$28,000 - CK4010 HST TLB with every add-on added + 2 remotes, filled tires and no third function.

$33,000 - NX4510 HST TLB with 2 remotes, filled rear tires and no third function.

Was given the same price as you for third function installed.

 

[paulfun9]

Lets say I want the Dk4510

From the first dealer add the things I would still want like filled tires, floor mat and Telescoping lower links it seems the price would still be around 3grand less than your second price. Guess it just seems too simple to me but the guy who saves me money on the same product gets my business.

 

[DieselBound]

NX5510HC with loader, filled rears and three remotes AND taxes came to about $36 for me (last October).

If prices are close I'd look to do business with the better dealer. New stuff comes with issues and a responsive dealer in such situations is worth the extra cost. I only had one nearby Kioti dealer, and while not highly rated I went with them figuring that I'd "help" them be the "better" dealer: so far they have seemed to get better; with me they've been very good- I make it a point to make it all about a partnership- I buy my filters and most fluids (except engine oil- I'm standardized for all my equipment) from them.

 

[Dawgrin]

@paulfun9 I agree with you for the most part. Both dealers seem pretty good. I think whoever can get me the best deal will get my business. From the replies here it seems estimate #1 is a legit good deal for an NX4501 HST. Is that fair to say?

That being true, what additional options would be good to have on that tractor? I really and a newbie when it comes to working with these machines, so I am not really sure what things I should be on the lookout for. I know i will be doing lots of work with the loader (moving soil, gravel, snow, etc.), I have a driveway close to a mile long to maintain as well, so I will be doingmlots of box grader work. And I have a fair amount of pasture and trails to keep mowed, as well as the occasional tree to drag around.

Thanks again for your help all!

 

[DieselBound]

How much grass/brush do you expect to end up having to mow? As I increase my grass area I'm thinking more about getting a flail: actually thinking of getting a smaller one for the B7800 so that my wife can mow- easier for her to deal with than a rotary; for a while longer the NX with a 6' rotary is tasked with doing the touch stuff, more clearing (and mowing too).

Might look at a planer/grader rather than a box blade if you have a lot of driveway to grade. Box blades, however, are almost indispensable, in which case sometimes even though they may not be optimal for grading one can accept that fact, make do. Also, box blades are great for ballast. In general the heavier the box blade the better. I got a 7' 1,200 lb one for my NX and have found that I have little use for the [hydraulic] rippers because the thing will really dig in (it'll roll sod!): having an hydraulic top link REALLY is an asset here (and can also be one for mowing- not optimal, but I've found I can at least work some ditches thanks to the hydraulic top link).

How much material do you expect to have to move? I bought a [used] dump trailer because I had a HUGE project that required a lot of material and I was moving it nearly 1/2 mile. At some point efficiency really drops as distance increases. Had I not had access to this material, which was/is free, the dump trailer wouldn't have been on my list. Again, it really depends on your long-term needs.

I made DO with a Kubota B7800 for nearly 6 years, on 40 acres that had LOTS of brush and wood debris. It wasn't until year two (or three?) that I discovered toothbars. Life would have been MUCH easier had I had one from the get-go. Also, it wasn't until about year four that I got around to putting ballast in the rear tires: I made sure to get ballast in my NX's rears right up front!

I have a lot of heavy chain and a great choker cable for moving tree trunks around, though I don't end up using them all that much as I try to cut and split on-site and load into my crates (after which time I don't touch the wood until I'm pulling each piece out to toss into the wood stove). I did, however, move some trunks for easier processing, used my grapple (estimated the trunks to be 2k+ lbs).

One has to really asses what one is going to be doing. Again, I made DO with a scant 30hp, small-framed tractor for nearly 6 years. When I went to purchase a bigger tractor I KNEW exactly what I needed it to do (and I've been putting it to good, hard use).

I know that you asked about options for the tractor, but until you know what implements and uses you're going to be using your tractor for it's really hard to say what options make sense. I've mentioned some implements to help think about tasks (when you step through tasks is when you can best translate to options and equipment needed).

 

[paulfun9]

As far as the tractor is concerned

If HST cruise control is nice to have if you have long runs where constant or steady speed will be needed
Long hours means I want comfort so the floor mat is important for me
Loaded rear tires are best for safety reasons
I really like having telescopic lower links on the three point, makes hooking up things so easy I have no need for any of the other quick attach offerings on the market
Other than that the list you have is good for basic useable needs based on my example given with the DK4510

So basically if dealer number 1 can save you 3 grand with the added options that is where I would be spending my money and the tractor would be very useable to start off with.


Like Diesel Bound points out I like the Grader/Planer or LPGS over a box blade for long driveways

Tooth bars for the bucket, grapples and forks are some very handy things for anyone with lots of property and a loader. Just don't kill the bank trying to buy everything at once. Focus on a tractor that is set up for the attachments at affair price as the most important thing and if the money is there then look at the attachments but remember many things like box blades, scarper blades and even LPGS grader blades can be had used at a fraction of the price of new. Being new each attachment will be a learning experience so pushing for too much with the purchase can leave some with a poor performing attachment even if the tractor is right.

.

 

[Dawgrin]

Might look at a planer/grader rather than a box blade if you have a lot of driveway to grade. Box blades, however, are almost indispensable, in which case sometimes even though they may not be optimal for grading one can accept that fact, make do. Also, box blades are great for ballast. In general the heavier the box blade the better. I got a 7' 1,200 lb one for my NX and have found that I have little use for the [hydraulic] rippers because the thing will really dig in (it'll roll sod!): having an hydraulic top link REALLY is an asset here (and can also be one for mowing- not optimal, but I've found I can at least work some ditches thanks to the hydraulic top link).

I had always been told that the grader box was the way to go when working on the driveway, use the teeth to get that top level of gravel loosened up and take out any big pot holes and then use the blade to level and smooth. I am also putting in a new 200' section of driveway where I will need to break up some hard soil and move a lot of dirt around. Figured I could at least get things nice and loose with the box and then come back with the loader to move stuff to a pile.

I am having trouble figuring out where to find a heavy box like that. The ones I am seeing (72") are like 400-500 pounds and I am not sure if that is enough or if I need to invest in something bigger. Same with the rotary cutter that the dealer I am working with is trying to sell me on. He priced a Bushhog BH6 cutter which, when I look at the specs seems pretty light weight. I like the specs on the BH16 much better, but I am not sure if that is what I really need or not.

I can be a bit indecisive when it comes to a big purchase like this and i always seem to be swinging between "I want to get the best and toughest thing I can get" and "wow that is a lot of $$"

 

[DieselBound]

I bought a new box blade only because I could not find a good used one. PM me and I'll let you know where I got it. Hard surfaces definitely need a heavy implement. I've found that rippers/scarifiers make for great brakes! Doesn't take much to have a box blade with rippers down dig in and stall you out. This is where an hydraulic top link is essential (and one sets the rippers shallow).

Bush hog I got used. REAL used; but, it's near Medium Duty (one has to really research to fully understand what the various classes are here; there's no industry standard, but once you understand what's different in the different "classes" it become more obvious- look to the leading manufacturers to know what's really "heavy duty," "wedium duty," "light duty" etc.): it's about 1k lbs, 6', (90 HP gearbox) Bush Hog brand. $800, but I had to buy a new PTO shaft and get the tail wheel bracket welded (and reinforced): it's mentioned in my thread http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-buying-pricing/369313-my-nx5510h.html

Being indecisive just means that you're not being hasty. Read around in the Attachments section in this site, it has some great info to help provide others' experiences. Case in point, after reading up about PTO augurs I decided to NOT go that route and instead rented a skid steer with an augur: fencing project; I got the augur stuck a few times- had I not had the ability to reverse, as is the case with PTO-driven augurs, I don't know what I'd have done; yes, many people manage, but for me I had a big project and I had to slam it out quickly; I won't hesitate to rent power/the right tool for the job.

 

[Dawgrin]

Interesting that you mention how useful that hydraulic top link is. Both dealers I spoke to told me that it would be useless for that application and that size tractor. I am not sure why they would say that, it seemed like a pretty great feature to have when you have to adjust a heavy implement on the back but I don't know much...=p

 

[Tigershark]

My Kioti dealer also sells badboy products and they make a mean cutter, I think mine was around 1200$ new, heavy duty will go through 2-3 inch saplings without slipping the clutch, I do wish I had opted for the 6' model but it is heavy duty and I really like it on my 4010.

 

[DieselBound]

Interesting that you mention how useful that hydraulic top link is. Both dealers I spoke to told me that it would be useless for that application and that size tractor. I am not sure why they would say that, it seemed like a pretty great feature to have when you have to adjust a heavy implement on the back but I don't know much...=p

What tractor and what application are they referring/responding to?

There's a pretty good thread in the Attachments section on using a box blade. There's a fellow there that probably knows about as much as anyone on the finer points of running a box blade and he wouldn't operate one without the hydraulic top link AND a side (box leveler) hydraulic cylinder. I don't have a lot of experience with using the box blade and hydraulic top link combo, BUT, I DO know that it works: on my fence project I did a lot of grading and moving around material (probably about 300 tons worth).

The hydraulic top link has been great with my cutter too. I've been able to mow over and into some small ditches w/o having to climb out of/off of the tractor and adjusting the top link. Also retract and back into big brush and ease down to pulverize.

Regarding rotary cutters, 6' "Heavy Duty" cutters new run around $3.600. New "Medium Duty" of same size run around $2,500. I spent a lot of time looking at them and almost went with buying a new one but managed to spot the used one I ended up with (at $800, even beat to heck, was a deal).

 

[rademamj]

I just purchased the Kioti Ck4010 SEHC 4x4 with the factory cab and with Heat/AC/Radio . All optional hydraulic remotes are automatically included. Price was $30,195.00. Added the Rotary Cutter, Box Blade and Auger with stand and down force hydraulic. All implements were painted Kioti Orange but came with complete Woods Instruction Manuals and parts listing.

 

[rademamj]

I bought a new box blade only because I could not find a good used one. PM me and I'll let you know where I got it. Hard surfaces definitely need a heavy implement. I've found that rippers/scarifiers make for great brakes! Doesn't take much to have a box blade with rippers down dig in and stall you out. This is where an hydraulic top link is essential (and one sets the rippers shallow).

Bush hog I got used. REAL used; but, it's near Medium Duty (one has to really research to fully understand what the various classes are here; there's no industry standard, but once you understand what's different in the different "classes" it become more obvious- look to the leading manufacturers to know what's really "heavy duty," "wedium duty," "light duty" etc.): it's about 1k lbs, 6', (90 HP gearbox) Bush Hog brand. $800, but I had to buy a new PTO shaft and get the tail wheel bracket welded (and reinforced): it's mentioned in my thread http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-buying-pricing/369313-my-nx5510h.html

Being indecisive just means that you're not being hasty. Read around in the Attachments section in this site, it has some great info to help provide others' experiences. Case in point, after reading up about PTO augurs I decided to NOT go that route and instead rented a skid steer with an augur: fencing project; I got the augur stuck a few times- had I not had the ability to reverse, as is the case with PTO-driven augurs, I don't know what I'd have done; yes, many people manage, but for me I had a big project and I had to slam it out quickly; I won't hesitate to rent power/the right tool for the job.

You need to install the hydraulic down force kit on the PTO augers to reverse out of hole when the auger gets stuck.
These are optional for Kioti augers. The optional stand is worth every penny for the Auger. It's such a cumbersome piece of equipment the stand solves alot of headaches when going to attach.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Interesting that you mention how useful that hydraulic top link is. Both dealers I spoke to told me that it would be useless for that application and that size tractor. I am not sure why they would say that, it seemed like a pretty great feature to have when you have to adjust a heavy implement on the back but I don't know much...=p

It has been my experience that a lot of dealers don't really have a clue when it comes to implements and what "really" works or what it takes to have that implement work to it's fullest potential.

I had 2 different guys at the first of the year needing-wanting hydraulic top links for their 600HP cat 4 tractors. But according to your dealer their tractors must have been to big to use them on their tractors. Everything just has to be built to properly fit what it's going to be used for. Not really all that difficult.

If you have as much grading to do as it sounds like you do, you want at a minimum of a 1000lb implement to do that grading. That applies to a box blade, a rear blade and a land plane grading scraper (LPGS) which it is nice to have all 3 as well a good landscape rake.

Box blade should be 6'-7'. A 78" unit is what I would recommend. Rear blade should be an 8 footer. LPGS should be 6'-7', maybe an 8 foot unit depending on your conditions. Landscape rake should be an 8 footer also.

None of these implements are cheap in this weight range, but they will get the job done better and much easier and will last a lifetime.

A top & tilt set for your 3pt hitch makes all of these grading implements able to perform at their peak much easier without having to continually be leaving your seat to make manual 3pt adjustments.

Good luck with your searches and your end decisions. :thumbsup:

 

[wagnon89]

I would definitely recommend giving Mike Schramke at Larry Stovesand Equipment in Murfreesboro, TN a call. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I could all but guarantee he'll give you a price you'll be happy with. I just ordered a NX 4510 HST two days ago and he was a pleasure to do business with. They will deliver as well.

 

[DieselBound]

Ah, yes, it was Brian (MtnViewRanch) that I was thinking about as being the master at using a box blade. Lucky to have folks like him around.

Again, weight IS critical. Even at 1,200 lbs my box blade will occasionally bump up due to catching on a good sized rock. Such rocks are usually dislodged. Lighter implements would likely just bounce right over, leaving you with trying to figure out how to get that mound of rock up. I'd contemplated an even heavier box blade and I'm kind of happy I didn't go for it as this one ridding on the back of my NX seems about all I'd want to carry (I've got a lot of uneven ground and like to travel faster than I probably should!).

 

[DK35vince]

Interesting that you mention how useful that hydraulic top link is. Both dealers I spoke to told me that it would be useless for that application and that size tractor. I am not sure why they would say that, it seemed like a pretty great feature to have when you have to adjust a heavy implement on the back but I don't know much...=p

I've had a hydraulic top link on my DK 35 for 16 years. I use it nearly every time I use the tractor.
So use full I will never have a tractor without one.

 

[DieselBound]

Vince, I went some 1,100 hours before finally getting relief. My B7800 is total low-budget, no rear hydraulics (I could never muster up the courage to try and rectify). My manual top link always tended to loosen up, in which case it was common to be getting off the tractor to adjust (or for changing conditions/requirements). I learned a lot as to what I wanted in my next tractor.

I'm fortunate in that my dealer and its staff actually do farming stuff, they operate tractors on a regular basis. Next time I drop in there I may ask them what they think of hydraulic top links just to hear what they have to say (pretty sure they won't say they're useless).

 

[Dawgrin]

Hey All,

Just an update on this. I decided to go with the NX 4510 HST. So it came out to $26940 with Tractor, Loader, 2 Rear Remotes and and Bush Hog MBX72 box blade. I am expecting delivery here in the next week or so. Thank much for all of the help and great advice!