Compressed Natural Gas For Vehicles

[heehaw]

ford has a propane option for their pickups: cost is @ $6000.
heehaw

 

[Redneck in training]

In Holland, they have tried CNG on an agricultural tractor already in 1989: a guy from the agricultural university converted a petrol Ferguson TEF to CNG.

Biggest problems with CNG:
-you need to bring 4x bigger tanks, compared to LPG which means a lot of volume
-engines dont last as long on CNG as they do on diesel
-because of the lower comrpession ratio needed, its not just that easy to convert

Because of that, the biggest application in Holland are city buses, that have a row of tanks on top of the roof or under the floor, anywhere where unused space is.

In England, 2 years ago an agricultural university tested with mixed fuel: They sprayed CNG into the manifold of an old Scania 141 V8 truck: Power rose from 350 to 380 hp and specific fuel consumption dropped 10% because the CNG acted as an accelerator to the Diesel combustion process, causing a cleaner better burn of the diesel.

In other experiments, other researchers used even a 1/3 Diesel, 2/3 CNG mixture successfully.

The beauty of mixed fuel, is that you can keep the compression ratio of the Diesel, work with an unrestricted air flow and have the Diesel combust the CNG. Normally you need the correct air/fuel mixture, but the burning Diesel ignites the relatively lean CNG/Diesel/air mixture well.

I don't know if they last longer but they might leak less because of Propane molecules are larger than air.

 

[Redneck in training]

ford has a propane option for their pickups: cost is @ $6000.
heehaw

$6000 is a rip off. Many fork lifts have Propane option so my guess is you could get a propane add on at field tested vehicles dealership (junk yard).

 

[jimainiac]

I wouldn't think that propane would be such a good option for motor vehicles on the roads. I thought the advantage of propane, for forklifts and such, was that it was safer to run them indoors.
I wonder if that conversion option that Ford offers would be for propane or natural gas? $6000. sounds like a lot. I wonder how extensive the conversion is?

 

[The Dougster]

I have a friend in the propane business and last year when fuel prices skyrocketed I began to ask questions about converting and he didn't think it was a good idea citing, first, cost... $4,000, loss of power, second, and lack of availability, third... The cost factor scared me off..

 

[Bird]

I don't remember exactly when it was (something over 20 years ago) when Ford manufactured and sold some Ford Fairmonts (intermediate size cars) that were built for LPG only. Obviously, they didn't catch on. If I remember right, they were all inline 6 cylinder cars. A number of cities, including some police departments in this area, experimented with LPG conversions of their city vehicles. Naturally, someone recommended that the Dallas Police Department do that, also. There were arguments for and against the idea, but the determining factor was that the fire marshall at the time said no LPG powered vehicle would be permitted into the basement parking garages under the city hall and the old police and courts building. So that squelched that idea.

 

[jimainiac]

I don't remember exactly when it was (something over 20 years ago) when Ford manufactured and sold some Ford Fairmonts (intermediate size cars) that were built for LPG only. Obviously, they didn't catch on. If I remember right, they were all inline 6 cylinder cars. A number of cities, including some police departments in this area, experimented with LPG conversions of their city vehicles. Naturally, someone recommended that the Dallas Police Department do that, also. There were arguments for and against the idea, but the determining factor was that the fire marshall at the time said no LPG powered vehicle would be permitted into the basement parking garages under the city hall and the old police and courts building. So that squelched that idea.

Do you think the fire marshall's office would say the same thing for natural gas powered vehicles? I have seen signs at the entrances to tunnels warning against vehicles transporting propane and feeling a little guilty knowing that I had a couple of bernzomatic cylinders for the camping stove.

 

[Bird]

Do you think the fire marshall's office would say the same thing for natural gas powered vehicles? I have seen signs at the entrances to tunnels warning against vehicles transporting propane and feeling a little guilty knowing that I had a couple of bernzomatic cylinders for the camping stove.

Jim, I don't know what the fire marshall would say about natural gas powered vehicles. I'm sure you know one of the major differences is that natural gas is lighter than air and will rise while LPG is heavier than air and will sink and "pool". As for the tunnels and their signs, I guess the regulations are different in different states, but I know some the places that have such signs do not object to RVs with a couple of 30# bottles or with a permanently mounted tank.

It's kind of like one state that used to have signs before the weigh stations for all commercial vehicles and all vehicles towing a trailer to stop. I had my doubts but since I was pulling a 32' fifth-wheel travel trailer, I went in to see, and of course, they acted like they thought I was crazy for stopping with an RV.

 

[BarryinMN]

PACCAR (Kenworth & Peterbilt) are building short range CNG heavy haulers for the LA Port container facility in San Pedro. They use a 15L Cummins Westwood engine that has no loss of HP or torque.

Write ups in the CA Energy Commission web pages and the EPA alternative/renewable fuels.

 

[chh]

The conversion to propane was popular in the 70's and early 80's. It was a fairly simple process with carb engines and vehicles could use gas or propane. A lot of p/u's carried 60 to80 gallon tanks. Cost to do one of my pickups then was under $800 tank and all.
I am sure any conversion with modern engines would be quite a different process and considerably more expensive. If I could get it done halfway resonably I would really like to have CNG or propane on my 1 ton flatbed with the V10. Of course the map did not show a CNG station very near me.
A girl I went to school with father had a car with the propane conversion(tank in the trunk). He got in one day while smoking a cigarete and it blew him back out of the car. The car was a total loss(burnt to a crisp) but he was very fortunate to only be shaken up and had some lightly singed hair. All of us neighborhood boys had to go look at the car. The tank stayed intact which at the time really suprised us.