Concealed Carry and Consequences

[coffeeman]

North Carolina has an "open carry" law, it is LEGAL for you to carry a sidearm as long as it is in plain sight. So, if you didn't have a CC permit, you could strap one (gun) on your side and go about your business.

I believe it's the same here in Pa. Had some friends about 30 years ago that planned a prank; they all armed themselves with guns on their sides. There was 5 of them that walked around town for about half a day. Finally the cops came to them and told them to knock it off. I guess they didn't break any laws. The cops told them to "get outa town." However, if one would use his gun, even if it's in sight, the crime can be linked to the concealed gun rules. You can be charged with crimes of concealment. I am not sure of the rule; I have just heard that is the case.

I have a friend who has a bar in Phoenix. He tells me there is still a law on the books that states a person must check his gun with the bartender when entering bar. Now that's a hoot.

Cheers....Coffeeman

 

[Sigarms]

I have a friend who has a bar in Phoenix. He tells me there is still a law on the books that states a person must check his gun with the bartender when entering bar. Now that's a hoot.

Usually it is against the law of the state in question to have a sidearm in an establishment that sells alcohol. Chuch, schools, events that charge admission, state/federal goverment, and locations that are visually marked are "usual" places where carrying concealed is a "no no" as well.

What's funny is that two states that I had a CC permit for never went over those laws.

 

[coffeeman]

Well,guess it depends on where you live,I happen to live in southern w.va. about 2 hours from va. tech.,,there is no need to carry a gun with you around here,,period,,I have hunted things all my life,,when you are hunting something,there is of course a need to be able to kill it when you can,,but other than that,the only need would be self protection,,and around here it just ain't nessacary,,been some places it was,but not here,and blacksburg is not really one of them either,its just you got alot of different strange people in one spot,[like any big university],,maybe there,,but outside,no,,no need.
Been around guns all my life,was in the 82nd airbourne,,kill deer every year,,but,don't believe in carrying a gun when I go buy snuff,,wouldn't live in a place where you had to and I ain't moving,,so...
Guns are not toys,they don't make you a man,,,people say they carry guns everywhere,,whens the last time a 50 year old man really needed a gun in this country to save his life?,,yeah,there are maybe a couple out of 20 million,,I got guns,this would be the wrong place to rob at night,I would shoot to kill and probably enjoy it,,thats why I ain't carrying one out with me,,but,,some places,will admitt,,you probably need to,,just wouldn't live there is all,,move,,,,thingy

So you think living in the sticks is safe? Just heard a news cast about the worst massacre of citizens in US history. Turns out it hapened in Utah in 1857 and was ordered by Brigham Young. It was at Mountain Meadows and had to be a peaceful place in 1857. Got some info on net. Turns out 140 people in a wagon train were killed by Mormons for either religious purposes or just plain robbery. They tried to blame it all on indians.(American) A guy named Lee was the only person charged and then executed 20 years later. They spared 17 children under age 8. If anyone interested search "Brigham Young massacre".

Folks say, "What's this world comming to?" I believe it's always had rotten people. Today we just have too much news coverage.

I don't carry. However, it might not be a bad idea to consider. Can't be too cautious.

Cheers...Coffeeman

 

[thingy]

No I didn't decribe concelded weapons permit people either,,,at least not around here,,all you gotta be is not wanted by the law around here and believe you can get one,so that arguments out soundman.
I honestly would feel safer around most of your run of the mill criminals with concelded guns than somebodys wife who only shot the gun twice and its just the second gun she's ever touched,,they generally all have these little semi's too,,danger danger.
Yeah,I feel safe around here,,and I got plenty of guns,,but yeah I am safe enough around here,[at least in our travel area] that me or my wife don't need to carry a hidden pistol,,I have been to several places where that wouldn't be the case.
Anything that happens in the dangerous places could happen here,[it did,down at va. tech],,russia could accidently nuke us too,,the train tracks about a mile from here could have a train roll over and release chemicals,,the sky could fall,etc,,,
But like I've said,,these instutions all need to let this be a learning thing,,they need to provide protection for people that are in them,,and I'm pretty sure they ain't even dumb enough to arm the pimplely faced boy who sets in the corner,,theres ways you do things and than there is the right way to do things,hopefully they will do the right thing..thingy

 

[shaley]

How about we have a sliding scale for CCW permit. If you are between 21 and 30 years then more training should be required. I don't have a problem with college kids carrying but I want them to understand fully the consequences of using deadly force. Or the problem with carrying a CW to a keg party. Maybe even make that a misdemeanor and take away the privilege for some period of time. If that dorm RA had been armed at VT it would be a different story.

 

[thingy]

In my opinion,these institutions need to protect the people in them,you shouldn't have to pay these big bucks to go to collage or be in the hospital and have to worry about getting gunned down,,you shouldn't have to carry a gun in places like these,thats my point. T he world has changed in the past 10 years or so,big time,,these institutions need to change as well,not tell the students and patients that maybe they should carry a gun,,and as far as va. tech. they wouldn't even let them do that,[smart choice],but than it is their responsibilty to protect them,,they didn't.
The president of that school and chief of college cops should be fired,yesterday,,,the board of whatever oughta before the weeks out,figure out how they wanta protect the students there,,either hire many armed guards,and/or see about getting a gun into the hands of some proplerly trained and qualified staff members,,,the rest of the institutions across this country oughta do same.
And don't forget about our many enemies,,they blow themselfs up on a daily basis for less than the korean got.They watch tv too,,many of them living in america while watching that tv too,,,thingy

 

[the_sandman_454]

I believe every person has an inherent right to self defense, and firmly believe that your right to live should cease when you attempt to encroach upon my right to live (i.e. attack me)...

I believe there should be no requirement to retreat in the case of self defense issues. I believe there should be automatic protection from civil suits if you are found not guilty for any reason in a criminal trial. Furthermore, I believe you should have the right to go after the family of the person who forced you to shoot them, for the pain, suffering and mental anguish they caused you by making you shoot them in defense of yourself.

I believe a person should be able to use any means necessary to protect him or herself, whether that be a taser, baseball bat, knife, a gun, an automobile, or anything else in existance your brain can quickly come up with a method for you to use as a weapon. Furthermore I believe the weapon you use shouldn't be able to be brought up as an issue in court, only the actions of using it and whether or not you felt threatened. The definition of "what would a reasonable person do if confronted with the situation" should be automatically defined as "fight back" anytime a weapon is pulled on another.

Thankfully I have never been in a situation where my options felt limited enough to feel the need to take another's life. I hope I can continue to avoid situations like that. I don't believe my ability to defend myself should be anywhere near as limited as it is now. I just hope that if it ever comes down to it, I have the presence of mind necessary to allow me to do what has to be done in order to give me the best chance possible of walking away from a situation.

I don't think many people of college age even have the slightest notion to fight back. The problem with that is the media after every incident like this, and every incident where someone successfully defended him or herself, they preach "don't fight back". This has become so ingrained in society today, I'm not sure it would have mattered for the people in the University incident, or the NASA thing, or any number of other incidents lately, if they had a weapon or not. Chances are they would hesitate to use it or not even consider it. I can't say for sure what I'd have done if placed in that situation, but I firmly believe it wouldn't be "nothing"... At least I hope I wouldn't just sit around in a corner hoping to not get killed. If I think I'm going to get killed anyhow, I hope I have the selflessness necessary to not go without a fight.

 

[Sigarms]

How about we have a sliding scale for CCW permit. If you are between 21 and 30 years then more training should be required. I don't have a problem with college kids carrying but I want them to understand fully the consequences of using deadly force.

I'd guess the majority of those over in Iraq are of college age, and I'm certain they understand the consequences of using deadly force.

I always had a problem with being able to arm a guy 18 years old, send him to combat, then tell him he's to young to drink.

You can't arm people if they don't want to be armed.

 

[RoyJackson]

First, we cannot depend upon a security guard at a school or law enforcement to protect anyone. The courts have even held that the duty of the police is to enforce laws, not protect people (it just happens that many of those laws have the intent (sucessfully or unsucessfully) to protect people.

If CCW is allowed at schools by adult students and school faculty, there would have to be some considerations:
1) How is the weapon to be secured when not carried? My opnion would be those one gun safes. The student and faculty would have to be instructed that if a gun is lost or stolen through neglect, they would be expelled or discharged. I'm not trying to be a hard nose, but the CCW carriers have to realize the seriousness of carrying a CCW. Dorm rooms aren't like one's home. They're a relatively public place. Obviously, anyone who steals a gun would be expelled and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
2) Anyone brandishing without purpose (playing cowboys and indians) would be subject to loss of CCW permit and expulsion.
3) Should there be an incident, the CCW carriers would have to stay where they are. That means they are not to look for an assailant. There would be too great a risk of innocents shooting each other or being shot by law enforcement if they're roaming the halls. CCW carriers would have to realize the weapons are for self defense, not trying to be a hero.
4) All CCW carriers would have to be registered at school security (I'm discussing students and faculty, not a parent visiting or picking up their child). This would be so the cops can know where the CCW carriers are most likely to be during an incident (reducing the possibility of accidentals shootings).
5) All CCW carriers would have to go through an orientation explaining the rules listed above. It would have to be emphasized that "youthful indiscretions" would not be an excuse. Again, not trying to be a hardnose, but we do have to cull out those people who would not take carrying a weapon seriously.

This isn't perfect by far. I'm sure there would be other constraints or safety issues to discuss. However, it would be a beginning for safe carry at school...maybe add an immunity for the school if a CCW carrier injures an innocent.

It's unfortunate that something like this even has to be discussed, but we live in a violent world. I don't see it getting any less violent. And gun banning policies have proven to be a failure twice in the last year (VA Tech and the Amish School shooting in PA).

Anyway, there's my opinion

 

[WhyNot]

I don't think many people of college age even have the slightest notion to fight back. The problem with that is the media after every incident like this, and every incident where someone successfully defended him or herself, they preach "don't fight back". This has become so ingrained in society today, I'm not sure it would have mattered for the people in the University incident, or the NASA thing, or any number of other incidents lately, if they had a weapon or not. Chances are they would hesitate to use it or not even consider it. I can't say for sure what I'd have done if placed in that situation, but I firmly believe it wouldn't be "nothing"... At least I hope I wouldn't just sit around in a corner hoping to not get killed. If I think I'm going to get killed anyhow, I hope I have the selflessness necessary to not go without a fight.

Well I had a long reply about this topic (CCW) but my login timed out and I lost it so here is a link about what you are talking about.
NationalReview

So you think living in the sticks is safe? Just heard a news cast about the worst massacre of citizens in US history.

This is not directed towards you coffeman you just happened to mention it. All of this talk from the media about Virginia Tech being the worst massacre just burns me. It is sad and it does deserve the attention that it is getting but, what exactly was 9/11 an accident ?