Concrete floor now or wait?

/ Concrete floor now or wait? #21  
So I had to bring in fill for my 20' x 32' pole building. The fill is approximately 6" in front and 30" along the rear of the building. Do I wait until next spring to pour a floor or do it now? Settling ya know?

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I put a 36x54' pole barn in with about 2' of sub oil and had a guy with a big drivable roller that vibrates to compact it better. When he got done it was so hard you couldn't dig in it. Consider that, although it will cost a couple hundred bucks. It will be a lot tighter than you could ever do with your tractor.
In your situation I'm sure you want the roof and sides on quick but then the floor will be out of the weather and it will take longer to compact naturally, if ever. Like another poster said, I would grade it higher on the sides so there is not an immediate drop off. Good luck. It looks like a nice project.:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
/ Concrete floor now or wait? #22  
I put a 36x54' pole barn in with about 2' of sub oil and had a guy with a big drivable roller that vibrates to compact it better

That's doing it properly.:thumbsup:
 
/ Concrete floor now or wait? #24  
So I had to bring in fill for my 20' x 32' pole building. The fill is approximately 6" in front and 30" along the rear of the building. Do I wait until next spring to pour a floor or do it now? Settling ya know?

You never fill inside a building with dirt. You're kinda screwed. I made that mistake myself when I didn't know better. Dirt needs water to settle, and you don't have it inside a building.

I didn't notice your pics - if you leave the area uncovered over the winter, you'll be good. You'll have to wait until then to build the building though. Either that, or build the building, then set up a lawn sprinkler and let it run for a month.

JayC
 
/ Concrete floor now or wait? #25  
You never fill inside a building with dirt. You're kinda screwed. I made that mistake myself when I didn't know better. Dirt needs water to settle, and you don't have it inside a building.

I didn't notice your pics - if you leave the area uncovered over the winter, you'll be good. You'll have to wait until then to build the building though. Either that, or build the building, then set up a lawn sprinkler and let it run for a month.

JayC

Almost all commercial construction specifies a five foot overbuild on the pad. This ensures the soil is fully compacted past the building line. A plate compactor in this situation will do nothing. The soil below is bridged by what's on top and you won't do much for it with a 84" vibratory compactor. The weight of the concrete plus the building will also not compact the soil. Over years the bottom lifts will settle as moisture is introduced and leaves. If you are concerned about it, pull out the soil and put it back in in 6" lifts using the right amount of water and a ride on vibratory roller. A plate compactor is good for 4" at the most. For mine I used a combination of a loaded wheel loader and loaded 18cy scraper. Where the dirt was dry I used a sprinkler to wet it down and mixed it with a disk.
 
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/ Concrete floor now or wait? #26  
If you have waited this long, why not rent a machine, get some more soil and some extra seat time and do it correctly? Not talking down at you, but just dont want to see your floor all cracky cracky in two years!:thumbsup:
 
/ Concrete floor now or wait? #27  
Almost all commercial construction specifies a five foot overbuild on the pad. This ensures the soil is fully compacted past the building line. A plate compactor in this situation will do nothing. The soil below is bridged by what's on top and you won't do much for it with a 84" vibratory compactor. The weight of the concrete plus the building will also not compact the soil. Over years the bottom lifts will settle as moisture is introduced and leaves. If you are concerned about it, pull out the soil and put it back in in 6" lifts using the right amount of water and a ride on vibratory roller. A plate compactor is good for 4' at the most. For mine I used a combination of a loaded wheel loader and loaded 18cy scraper. Where the dirt was dry I used a sprinkler to wet it down and mixed it with a disk.

Aggie is Right. The fill is not compacted properly in the rear. As others have said 6" lifts are the max that need to be compacted in layers. You have a worse condition that varies in depth so you will have differential settling if you dont redo it. It wont go to heck in a year or two it might take 5 or 10 years to settle enough for concrete to be a disaster, but it will happen. Crushed stone is the only thing that dumps out of the truck at almost 100% compaction. Even that depends on the size of the stone. Even a large vibratory roller is only going to compact the top third of the thickness at best. The lower 24" will settle slowly over time. I know you dont want to hear it but you should really redo it. If you are really against redoing it, you can put the water to it. You need LOTS of water though to make a difference. As in from a fire truck. You would need to build a dam around the perimeter and essentially build a pond. If you did this, you will be amazed how much it would settle. But you need to flood it at this point. Flooding it is definitely the unscientific way to fix it but it will make a difference.
Im a builder by profession and I had to take a lot of Geotechnical and Civil Eng classes working up to that. Im not guessing.
 
/ Concrete floor now or wait? #28  
A pond! Install a freezing system and make a year round skating rink!:thumbsup:
 
/ Concrete floor now or wait? #30  
Neither one of these trucks hardly left any marks so I don't really believe all that is necessary. The outriggers on the drill truck were just fine also. The fill was packed fairly well when putting it down. The 12 Yard dump truck was on the pad a lot also, with a load on as planned. The sides of the pad not so much but the pad was made considerably bigger for that reason. However the plan was/is to use a plate compactor, the guy who delivered the fill has one I can use any time I want, and I have before.
I'm still going to wait until spring. So many people on this forum, they can't all be wrong. Thanks again to all.

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Is it OK by the local building/code authorities (if you have any where you are) to drill a well that close to a building, even a future building?
 
/ Concrete floor now or wait? #31  
Is it OK by the local building/code authorities (if you have any where you are) to drill a well that close to a building, even a future building?

Im just going out on a limb here but I think they are drilling for the pole barn posts...
 
/ Concrete floor now or wait? #32  
Huh. Sure could be. I saw Drill Truck, and assumed a well...
 
/ Concrete floor now or wait?
  • Thread Starter
#33  
Im just going out on a limb here but I think they are drilling for the pole barn posts...
That would be correct, 17 holes. 4ft deep x 20" diameter. Until I saw your post I could not figure out what dstig1 was talking about. I see dstig1's point now but it just didn't click in the old head. :confused: Thanks
 
/ Concrete floor now or wait? #34  
So I just built a pad for my new 30x60 pole barn. My pad is all fill since I find it pretty silly to dig a hole and put a building, especially a pole barn, into the hole. My building is on a slight slope just like the OP's and the fill "wedge" goes from 0" to about 30". A very important thing to do in this situation is to build the pad wider than your building, meaning, keep a level area outside of the poles for a good distance, in my case I went 10 feet beyond the building. This is to get good compaction aroudn the building since near the edge of the fill and certainly on the fill slope you won't get good compaction and the poles are using that material for lateral strength.

First thing I did was strip the sod. Can't tell if you did that. Then get inorganic fill dirt delivered or dug out and ready.

Then go rent a 3 ton vibratory roller. These things are great and only about 4 feet wide. With a roller like this you only need to grade each lift close and then the roller makes it all look pretty.

I then started spreading fill. One scoop at a time. Go easy, you only want about 8" of fill which will compact to less than 6". Then blade it smoothish with the boxscraper. Then compact it with the roller in both directions at least a couple of times. Moisture during compaction is important. Too wet is better than too dry. Mine was too wet at times which makes the roller do some funny stuff.

There is no difference between properly compacted fill and native ground. You can make fill dirt hard but you must do it properly. You can even have a company come and and test your soil for compaction if the risk warrants it.

My poles will be drilled deep. Deep enough to go through the fill and onto native ground just like the OP's. This means that the only risk with fill is the differential settlement breaking your slab. Is that a big deal? Really? Come on now, all concrete cracks. Good steel reinforcement will help prevent the cracks from seperating.

You can always pour more concrete on top of the settled concrete. You can always break it out and replace it. You will have to decide how many inches of settlement is too much.

To the OP: You've probably already built your building. Removal and replacement isn't an attractive option. If you can wait, fine, I don't think it will get you much if the roof is on. Your problem isn't settlement, it's differential settlement so expect to see the slab roll down where the fill is deepest. The back of the slab will settle more than the front. The building is bearing on the undisturbed earth so the building is fine. Worst case, you repour the slab if/when it gets bad enough. May not even need to remove the old slab, just pour a new level slab on top of the settled one.

Yes, you should have compacted it better. Too late for that now.
 
/ Concrete floor now or wait?
  • Thread Starter
#35  
Highbeam,
Thanks, The fill is bank-run gravel unlike dirt or top soil it packs fairly fast. As far concrete cracking goes and your thoughts, I agree but waiting is not a problem either and who knows maybe I'll never put a concrete floor in. I have a 32' x 32' horse pole barn that has had a crusher-run floor for 25 years and I'm just fine with it. I am not one that is frivolous with money and never have been but I have to say, it ain't a problem if money or work can solve it. Not being arrogant just a fact.
 
/ Concrete floor now or wait? #36  
That would be correct, 17 holes. 4ft deep x 20" diameter. Until I saw your post I could not figure out what dstig1 was talking about. I see dstig1's point now but it just didn't click in the old head. :confused: Thanks
Silly me :eek::ashamed:
 
/ Concrete floor now or wait? #38  
Yes, you should have compacted it better. Too late for that now.
Not really ..... just get in there with your loader/box blade and pull out the fill where it's too deep .... then go rent a small vibratory roller and/or jumping jack ..... and slam it down :D:

Dual Drum - Articulated Walk Behind Roller

Rammer Tamper "Jumping Jack" 130lb Class

Regrade and then .... compact again ...

Fill material not moist enough ? .... and no water in the building ? (dunno ... but that sure looked like a frost-proof hydrant in one of them pics to me ... :rolleyes:)

How about this: run a hose over to the building and give 'er a squirt as needed ...

My advice is get it done and don't put it off .... you never know - there may be a reason, come this winter, that it would be really, really nice to have it done ....

Signed,
The guy, who if he's lucky, might get the floor for one of the three bays in his polebarn poured before the snow flies .... five years after the barn went up .... :(
 
/ Concrete floor now or wait? #39  
Now I get curious; one end well packed 30 inches deep, the other only a well packed 6 inches. Seems the load carrying capacity should be different between the two ends. Is that proper?:confused:
 
/ Concrete floor now or wait? #40  
Now I get curious; one end well packed 30 inches deep, the other only a well packed 6 inches. Seems the load carrying capacity should be different between the two ends. Is that proper?:confused:
Assuming an undisturbed soil under all of the fill containing no organic matter (ie topsoil), and both depths of fill properly compacted ...... I would think ... not .... :confused2:
 

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