Confirming Wire and Conduit size

[grsthegreat]

It’s fascinating to me to see the evolution of residential service starting around 1910 to now…

I almost bought a Victorian with original gas lighting that was refit for electric often reusing the gas pipe as conduit for wire and the gas fixtures electrified.

Many prewar nothing more than one hot and a neutral with a single 30 amp Edison fuse main.

At todays cost of material running new underground service could very well require a mortgage…

No wonder so many shopping centers are hit by copper thieves stealing wire running to parking lot lights.

12 years ago my brother wanted lights in the tractor shed some distance from the home…

I penciled it all out and he decided to wait until copper prices dropped and is still waiting.

What about a step up transformer at the source and step down at the shop so as to be able to reduce conductor size?

Like copper will ever go down. If its just lights, think solar.

Or run a aluminum wire out to a subpanel. Than copper wire for light circuits. Aluminum subfeeds work just fine. If soil is all sand, direct burial lasts a long time. If its rocky, use conduit or be prepaired to redo it again.

And if its just lights, i wouldnt worry about voltage drop. But if you may want to use power tools….calc out the voltage drop. Keep it at about 3%

 

[ultrarunner]

Like copper will ever go down. If its just lights, think solar.

Or run an aluminum wire out to a subpanel. Than copper wire for light circuits. Aluminum subfeeds work just fine. If soil is all sand, direct burial lasts a long time. If its rocky, use conduit or be prepaired to redo it again.

Lots of critters that dig and burrow.

The 8D battery and a Northern solar panel going on 4 years…

His wife was so happy having a light switch instead of multiple flashlights and I also installed a drop cord with a 12volt bulb.

 

[caver]

For that long of a run, you will need to upsize the wire that you run due to voltage drop. If it were me, id run a longer primary utility run towards the house instead of a huge secondary wire required for a 260’ run.

As stated in my earlier post having a second pole will double my bill as far as basic usage. The pole in the picture also feeds my barn and the old derelict cabin. No EGC for those. I plan to build a shop and tear down the old cabin. The 200a main breaker panel is super overkill for a 600sq foot cabin. I couldn't find the panel I wanted two years ago when i bought the one I have on hand. I plan on gas heat, stove, dryer, water heater. No codes, inspectors in this rural are of the Ozarks. I'll come up with a plan when I talk to the coop guy in the next couple weeks.

 

[DarkBlack]

The meter and the subpanel are in, appropriately grounded, and the County inspector has signed off on both.

Just reread your initial post.
Assuming you’re going to run a ground wire from your meter to your “sub panel “ ,I know you won’t,because you just want to get it done, but I wish you would ask your county inspector, how “appropriately grounding” your “sub panel “ doesn’t create two bonding points and create parallel current paths on the neutral and ground wires to the pole meter.
Should make for interesting conversation
Or, maybe he’s approved it without a pole to house, ground wire connection. I don’t know

 

[beowulf]

Just reread your initial post.
Assuming you’re going to run a ground wire from your meter to your “sub panel “ ,I know you won’t,because you just want to get it done, but I wish you would ask your county inspector, how “appropriately grounding” your “sub panel “ doesn’t create two bonding points and create parallel current paths on the neutral and ground wires to the pole meter.
Should make for interesting conversation
Or, maybe he’s approved it without a pole to house, ground wire connection. I don’t know

Darkblack, Interesting point - and one I admit I do not fully understand - but thank you for your input. I will recheck the site - to confirm the subpanel is grounded as I stated. The contractor (for the house build) told me the rough electrical - including the subpanel - there had been inspected and signed off. We had the power company install two new poles, a replacement (sufficient to handle a transformer), a next in-line pole, and then they ran their lines to the pole we put in and hooked it all up to the meter panel. I was responsible for calling in the inspection for our pole, weather head, and panel there. It has 8' two ground rods there and was inspected but I was told I needed to add a temporary GFI circuit there - outside the box. I did that, it was reinspected and signed off. I will recheck tomorrow to see if I reported everything accurately. They were also putting in wiring there for solar.

 

[beowulf]

Two years ago, we had about 150 feet of buried from the last pole with the transformer to the meter base on the house.

The Co-Op provided the aluminum feeder wire, all wound and wrapped together, but before providing the wire, they required the meter base to be mounted and the conduit to be buried and inspected. So the actual wire install was a tough pull with 4 guys, two pushing and two pulling when we put it in.

The other thing they required (by code I was told) was we had to bury a red 4 inch plastic warning tape along the length of the run, 12 inches above the conduit, so anyone digging would "hopefully" stop upon digging up the tape!

Yeah, I have continued to check on all that is required - e.g., if I can put both water line and electric run in the same trench without much separation (answer is yes), and confirming depth of trenches for all, etc. And in doing this I came across the same warning tape requirement - except it is for a 6", apparently specific red tape warning potential diggers. That tape - which so far, I have only found in 1000 foot rolls - the 'detectable" kind is very expensive. I guess the "detectable" aspect explains the cost. Other tape is also red and 6" wide and a lot cheaper. I am not sure which I need yet.

 

[ponytug]

Yeah, I have continued to check on all that is required - e.g., if I can put both water line and electric run in the same trench without much separation (answer is yes), and confirming depth of trenches for all, etc. And in doing this I came across the same warning tape requirement - except it is for a 6", apparently specific red tape warning potential diggers. That tape - which so far, I have only found in 1000 foot rolls - the 'detectable" kind is very expensive. I guess the "detectable" aspect explains the cost. Other tape is also red and 6" wide and a lot cheaper. I am not sure which I need yet.

I would do your future self a favor and use the detectable tape.

As cost saving it is, if it were me, I would use two trenches, both with a way of tracing them. It makes future work simpler.

On the future work thought, I would also upsize the conduit.

All three are definitely in the future proofing category, and I suspect that you could get by without everything but the electrical trace tape. Speaking from experience, having electrical/gas/water separation makes future repairs and modifications much easier, as does tape in the trench to identify each one. These days, I try to photograph construction when trenches are open to be able to get to things more easily. I find that I think I won't need access, and then I do.

All the best,

Peter

 

[grsthegreat]

Yeah, I have continued to check on all that is required - e.g., if I can put both water line and electric run in the same trench without much separation (answer is yes), and confirming depth of trenches for all, etc. And in doing this I came across the same warning tape requirement - except it is for a 6", apparently specific red tape warning potential diggers. That tape - which so far, I have only found in 1000 foot rolls - the 'detectable" kind is very expensive. I guess the "detectable" aspect explains the cost. Other tape is also red and 6" wide and a lot cheaper. I am not sure which I need yet.

I never use detectable tape on electrical trenches…..the wires themselves are already detectable.

I use the detectable taps for water lines. Gas requires a yellow coated copper wire in my area.

 

[beowulf]

I would do your future self a favor and use the detectable tape.

As cost saving it is, if it were me, I would use two trenches, both with a way of tracing them. It makes future work simpler.

On the future work thought, I would also upsize the conduit.

All three are definitely in the future proofing category, and I suspect that you could get by without everything but the electrical trace tape. Speaking from experience, having electrical/gas/water separation makes future repairs and modifications much easier, as does tape in the trench to identify each one. These days, I try to photograph construction when trenches are open to be able to get to things more easily. I find that I think I won't need access, and then I do.

All the best,

Peter

Thanks, Peter, as I am still in the process of putting this all together, I can consider all options. As concerns the separation, as the electrical conduit will be deeper than is required for the water lines, there will be some vertical separation. A separate electrical run will come back from the subpanel to the well area (I should have and may post a diagram as that would be helpful to explain what I am facing) and that can be adjacent to the other electrical conduit - and all put in before the water line.
I have decided to go with the detectable electrical tape - I am guessing that is what they want even though they did not specifically state that.
Putting in separate trenches for water and electrical would be a problem given the layout. The electrical and water lines come from the same location/direction for part of the run, and there is not a lot of room for a parallel trench given terrain and location of well equipment and storage tank.
The propane trench is on the other side of the house and thus separate, as is the fire water storage tank so both of those will have separate trenches.
I have had real issues finding someone up here who is dependable and so I am taking on some of this myself. We have, unfortunately, wasted months when those who say they will come, don't - or delay and reschedule. But I guess being busy is a good thing.
Appreciate the input.
Ron

 

[beowulf]

I never use detectable tape on electrical trenches…..the wires themselves are already detectable.

I use the detectable taps for water lines. Gas requires a yellow coated copper wire in my area.

I thought the same - but the power company's material specifies a 6-inch-wide red caution tape 12 inches below grade and above the run. They did say 'detectable' but the brands they identify as approved are 'detectable' products.
The propane company advised they will install the wire required for the gas line.