Confusee - 3rd function electric valve

[DraftHorse]

Ok, I have been looking at solonoid (solo) valves from a lot of different sources and now am totally confused.

What I want to do is add a 3rd function, not a diverter to my L3130. My plan would be to disconnect the Pb hose from my joystick and reconnect to the PB on the solo valve. Then add a hose from joystick PB to the input on the valve. This I got so far.

Questions Are:

1 - For a true 3rd function, would I need a 2 spool or 1.
2 - How would I connect the relief line from the solo so I won't interfere with regular control function.
3 - If I were looking at surplas center, what would the item be.

I'm pretty good at sparks, so the electric side of things is easy. I just am confused on what type of valve.

Thanks

Peter

 

[GuglioLS]

My plan would be to disconnect the Pb hose from my joystick and reconnect to the PB on the solo valve.
Maybe you meant to say connect the PB output FROM the joystick to the Input (P Pump) side of the solenoid (sub plate)? Hooking it up that way will give you true third function, provided you have enough flow out of your pump and you feather the joystick valve while operating the solenoid valve at the same time.

1 - For a true 3rd function, would I need a 2 spool or 1.
Well normally to operate a double acting cylinder all you need is a single spool valve (one manual lever). However since you are wanting to use a solenoid, technically the solenoid has two spools but acts like a single spool manual (non electric valve)

2 - How would I connect the relief line from the solo so I won't interfere with regular control function. I have never seen a solenoid (sub plate)with a PB output or pressure relief. It will have an input(P), an A & B (work ports) and a return to tank(T) output.

3 - If I were looking at surplus center, what would the item be.

I recommend the following from surplus center:

Solenoid
Then add the
Sub Plate
Plus two of these
Electrical Connectors

What will it be used for?

Larry

 

[DraftHorse]

Larry, thanks for the quick response.

First, from what I can see on my loader valve, there are three hoses going to the tractor. I believe these to be the pressure (P), the return (T) and the power beyond (Pb).

From what I understand, to maintain functionality of the down stream hydraulics, I believe I still would need to maintain the power beyond connection.

Another issue that arises is, can I put a Tee connection on the return (T) line of the joy stick valve and the return (T) point of the solo valve.

So what I think I need ( and correct me if I am wrong ) is this:

1 - Connect hose from Pb on joystick to P of solo valve.
2 - Connect hose from Pb out of solo back to the tractor (where the original Pb hose was connected.)
3 - Place a Tee fitting on the return (T) hose from the joystick to the tractor and connect a hose from the tee to the return (T) port on the solo.


The reason for going with a 3rd function is to give me independant control on a grapple, a bale squezze and yet to be thought of.

Peter

 

[kennyd]

Peter,
This has been discusussed LOTS of times here on TBN...
WR Long has a 3rd function kit that will fit your machine perfectly, it will cost about $500.00. You can also search for "diverter", "wr long" and "3rd function" to find lot's of reading on the subject.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Larry, thanks for the quick response.

First, from what I can see on my loader valve, there are three hoses going to the tractor. I believe these to be the pressure (P), the return (T) and the power beyond (Pb).

From what I understand, to maintain functionality of the down stream hydraulics, I believe I still would need to maintain the power beyond connection.

Another issue that arises is, can I put a Tee connection on the return (T) line of the joy stick valve and the return (T) point of the solo valve.

So what I think I need ( and correct me if I am wrong ) is this:

1 - Connect hose from Pb on joystick to P of solo valve.
2 - Connect hose from Pb out of solo back to the tractor (where the original Pb hose was connected.)
3 - Place a Tee fitting on the return (T) hose from the joystick to the tractor and connect a hose from the tee to the return (T) port on the solo.


The reason for going with a 3rd function is to give me independant control on a grapple, a bale squezze and yet to be thought of.

Peter

I think this [#3] would leave you with no PB after the valve. On mine I took off the tractor end of the PB hose and put it to the pressure port on the new valve. Then ran a line from its return side to the now vacant PB connection on the tractor. Youre just looping the PB flow, coming out of the loader valve, to the new valve and then returning it to where it could be needed downstream to run the 3ph etc.
larry

 

[RonMar]

In order to perform work you need to build pressure. a "T" allows the fluid to go 2 directions so no presure will be built. a Diverter is like a "T" that will allow fluid to go down either of 2 paths and build pressure on whatever path is flowing fluid, with one path having priority(can take all the fluid) from the other path. Here are my 3 suggestions if you are interested:

1. Add another single spool PB capable valve in circuit on the PB output line of your existing valve, sending it's PB output on downstream like your current valve does now. "T" the return from this valve into the return from your current valve so both can flow back to the resovoir.

2. Add a solenoid or manual selector valve to the work ports of one of the spools on your existing valve. This type valve has 6 ports. 2 connect to the existing work ports on your valve. Another 2 connect to the existing cylinder circuit that the spool you are connecting to would normally control. The last two connect to the new circuit you are adding. Set the valve one way, and that spool lever controls the normal circuit just like it always did and the new circuit is hydraulically locked. Switch the valve the other way and the new third function is controlled by the spool and the normal function is hydrauically locked. Here is a sample of a mechanical version Surplus Center Item Detail

3. Replace your existing loader valve with a 3 spool valve with PB capability such as this one. Surplus Center Item Detail with the PB sleeve added from the selection to the right. This in my opinion would probably be the easiest option if you can find a valve with ports compatible with your existing hose ends. Other than fabbing or modifying your existing mount, you would basically need to do no additional plumbing, other than for the work lines for the new third circuit which you will have to do any way you decide to go.

I just added a third circuit for a grapple and this is how I did it. It took me about 1 hour to install the new 3 spool valve including fabbing the new mount plate.

My .02

 

[3RRL]

I think this [#3] would leave you with no PB after the valve. On mine I took off the tractor end of the PB hose and put it to the pressure port on the new valve. Then ran a line from its return side to the now vacant PB connection on the tractor. Youre just looping the PB flow, coming out of the loader valve, to the new valve and then returning it to where it could be needed downstream to run the 3ph etc.
larry

I think your are right.
And I agree with Larry too ... I don't think the subplate for the solenoid valve has a separate power beyond sleeve, therefore the exit from the subplate should go to where the power beyond from the fel valve used to go. That will give you power to the next valve in line.

You only need to have a separate return to sump line if the valve has a power beyond sleeve in it, like your fel valve does. That's why it has a separate return to sump, but the subplate wil not have one.

Here are some photos of the solenoid valve and sub plate. The valve sits on the subplate, bolted to it.







There are four port holes on the subplate, one on each side. Two go to the hydraulic cylinder it will operate, and the other two are, one power coming in from your loader power beyond port. The other is the exit (power out) and will go to where your loader power beyond hose used to go. There are no other ports such as a power beyond on the subplate. I say this because most of them are like mine, I think.

 

[GuglioLS]

The reason for going with a 3rd function is to give me independant control on a grapple, a bale squezze and yet to be thought of.

Thats great your adding a grapple, then your good to go with all the parts I supplied links to. Connect the sub-plate (P) input to the PB out of you FEL valve. The A & B work ports to your grapple cylinder, then the T out of the solenoid sub-plate to where ever that PB hose went that you took off the FEL valve.

I would imagine you have a decent FEL valve (two spool single joystick valve) Unless your an octopus and can operate 3 levers all at once, don't go replacing it with that 3 spool 3 lever monster valve. Attaching the solenoid (sub-plate) input to the PB output from your FEL valve, along with a SPDT momentary rocker switch mounted to your FEL stick will give you the true third function you desire. SO you will be able to curl / dump / raise / lower your bucket AND operate your grapple with ONE hand.

You keep mentioning the PB output of the solenoid - keep in mind, solenoid sub-plates do not have a PB out.

This makes me wonder if your existing FEL valve really does have PB. One thing that really needs to be clarified -
Does your FEL valve really have the PB output sleeve? If it does then normally there will be 7 hoses connected to the FEL valve, not 6.

P Input from pump
A1 - work port A (Bucket Curl)
B1 - work port B (bucket Curl)
A2 - Work port A (Raise / Lower)
B2 - Work port B (Raise / Lower)
T - return to tank (with PB, the only fluid coming out of the T side of the valve is the fluid that is being displaced from a moving cylinder.
PB - fluid under pressure (when valve is in neutral or feathered) to next valve down stream.

Larry

 

[RonMar]

I would imagine you have a decent FEL valve (two spool single joystick valve) Unless your an octopus and can operate 3 levers all at once

SO you will be able to curl / dump / raise / lower your bucket AND operate your grapple with ONE hand.
Larry

Hey, I resemble that remark Actually Larry, after playing with it for the past few weeks, the 3 lever is not that bad and it all gets done with ONE hand quite easilly. It was more work getting used to having float on the first spool again after all these years than getting used to the grapple control on the third lever. I couldn't be happier with the setup and it was a snap to plumb which is why I reccomend it.

With your solenoid on the PB output of your loader valve, Can you grapple and raise-lower/curl at the same time? With them all three on the same valve, I can via the parallel galleries internal to the valve body, just like you can probably raise and curl at the same time. I think if you are raising/lowering or curling the bucket, you have no flow out the PB port(flow diverted to cylinders and return port) untill you stop these functions

 

[Mahana79]

My plan would be to disconnect the Pb hose from my joystick and reconnect to the PB on the solo valve.
Maybe you meant to say connect the PB output FROM the joystick to the Input (P Pump) side of the solenoid (sub plate)? Hooking it up that way will give you true third function, provided you have enough flow out of your pump and you feather the joystick valve while operating the solenoid valve at the same time.

1 - For a true 3rd function, would I need a 2 spool or 1.
Well normally to operate a double acting cylinder all you need is a single spool valve (one manual lever). However since you are wanting to use a solenoid, technically the solenoid has two spools but acts like a single spool manual (non electric valve)

2 - How would I connect the relief line from the solo so I won't interfere with regular control function. I have never seen a solenoid (sub plate)with a PB output or pressure relief. It will have an input(P), an A & B (work ports) and a return to tank(T) output.

3 - If I were looking at surplus center, what would the item be.

I recommend the following from surplus center:

Solenoid
Then add the
Sub Plate
Plus two of these
Electrical Connectors

What will it be used for?

Larry

that is the exact stuff i just ordered. And i had just planned on putting the subplate in series with the PB line as well. i will probalby add a 2 station subplate and 2 more valves later on for rear functions. the the control area of the L3400 is already kinda cramped so i am choosing eletrical valves over mechanical so i can remote mount the actual valves and just have switches up in the operator area.