Considering a PT but concerned about support (A little Long)

PhilNH5 · Feb 7, 2003

Folks,
I have been considering a sub compact tractor for 4 years. I have been coming to TBN for a year. I have seen in person all the likely candidates. We go to 4 to 5 ag shows a year to see what is available. Plus I go to the local dealers.

MF2300, Deere 2210 and Kubota BX2200. I had my heart set on the BX2200 but have trouble with the prices the dealer offered. Plus prices in New England seem high anyway.

MF2300 54" MMM, FEL $13700. But the greatest dealer I have ever dealt with.
Deere 2210 FEL $12,995 ad in paper. Don't know about deck costs. Close dealer with good reputation

BX1800 54"MMM, FEL 14,700 last spring. Beautiful dealership but take it or leave it attitude.

I have 5 acres of mostly wooded and hilled property. The tractor will be used to landscape, haul firewood, mulch and rocks, snow removal and cutting the grass.

I started reading the PT just recently. A great group with a great deal of knowledge. And Moss Road's website pretty much sealed the deal for me. I love the quick attach concept. I have a Toro Wheelhorse garden tractor that has "quick-tach" and I can drop the deck in less than a minute. But then I need to undo the belts and even worse drag the deck out. Then repostion the tractor over the bulldozer blade, use a 2nd person to pry up the blade frame with a prybar while I attach it. Well you get the idea - it is all realatively fast to do but I spend most of the time on my knees in the dirt to accomplish this. And I am not getting any younger. So the PT definitely is my current favorite due to the quick attach. Great video by the way, Moss Road. The PT 422 at the great price.

Now to the point. I am worried about support. Especially the recent Cold Starting thread. Some of you folks are doing major surgery on your engines. Well beyond my abilities. I can handle all the standard stuff - belts, air filters, hydraulic fluid change, oil change. Routine maintenance sort of work. But stuff like the coils scares me. Also on another thread about the overheating muffler it seemed that PT's factory support was not so good. An acknolwedgement of the problem but no real fix.

So I am now getting cold feet and re-considering my intended purchase. I really like the MF and the dealer(Northwood Power Equip - new branch in Allenstown NH) so far is the best I have come across. But dropping the MMM on any of the tradtional sub compacts looks no easier than my Toro. And I have never used a 3 Pt hitch but there seems to be some physical man handling of the attachment to get it lined up. So I am torn.

If you have read this far I thank you for your time and I appreciate any info or opinions.

Phil

hazmat · Feb 7, 2003

Phil,

Not to hijack this thread from the PT folks. But have you considered a New Holland? They don't offer a "sub compact" but sizewise the TC18 & 21D are really only taller. Plus you get increased loader & 3 point capacity. Here is the breakdown on my TC18 from Chappel Tractor in Brentwood:

TC18 with 4WD & Hydro R4 Tires (rears filled) & folding ROPS $10,000
7106 Loader $2,600
914A MMM 60" rear discharge $2,300

I am very satisfied with my relationship with the Dealer from sales to parts & service.

You are close by, if you want to come by & take her for a spin let me know. I've found that it is a good size for my 4 acres.

You are correct, New England is more expensive than other parts of the country.

Charlie_Iliff · Feb 7, 2003

Looking, testing and researching is a large part of the fun, so keep it up.

Although there may be an exception, there have been posts about some problems but I don't think there is anyone seriously unhappy about having bought a PT. (I hope the Robin engine cold start problems are quickly solved, because that can lead to real dissatisfaction if not cured.) Certainly, the market for used PTs isn't saturated.

Suggestion: go to the dealer of your leading candidate conventional tractor and install and remove a 3 point brush hog. Then watch MossRoad's videos again, or, if possible, track down a PT owner in your area. Search the forum here, and call and ask Power Trac for a name. The conventional tractors are all good machines, and you'd probably be satisfied with quite a number of them. A Power Trac of comparable capability, however, is cheaper, more versatile, and you can have fun explaining it to your neighbors.

For significant repairs, any competent mechanic with experience with hydraulics can do most things. So far, I've been able to do my own, but others on the Board have tracked down some help in their areas.

Pacesetter300 · Feb 7, 2003

Like Hazmat, I don't want to steal the thread either, but I would keep shopping. Your price for the GC2300 is right there and appears to be a nice unit. I would check out more dealers. Not far from you is a Kubota dealer in Eliot, Maine that I've been told will sharpen his pencil and in the same vicinity is a Kioti dealer. The Kioti CK 20 is out soon and I think will be the class of the sub-compacts. Once out, it should at least have an effect on the other guys pricing.
I like the PT series very much. I think they are speciality machines. The attachments are expensive for what they are and from what I've read some don't work as well as 3 PT attachments (some work better) . If you need to do a one time job, you can rent 3PT attachments from some rental stores, not so with PT. You've got some time before the snow goes away, shop more and read here more before you make a final decision.
Pacesetter
(presently watching the snow fall in Saugus, MA) /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

waterglyn · Feb 7, 2003

I have a BX22 and a power trac 425. I like operating the power trac better that the kubota although the BX22 is a very powerful tractor for it's size. It will mow thick grass on hillsides with ease and is fairly stable due to it's low profile. I do not like removing and reinstalling the mid mount mower. Power Trac's quick attach blows it away here. The power trac is loader than the kubota diesel and is not as smooth running. I do think that you would be happy with either. I paid around 15,900 for the BX22 which came with a loader, backhoe, 60" mid mount mower, and a canopy.

Anonymous Poster · Feb 7, 2003

Phil,
As a recent owner of one of the cold "no start" machines I won't hide the fact that I was disappointed when I couldn't drive it off the delivery trailer...but, I've had two weeks to "chill" out and get the warranty "wheels" rolling...I remain optimistic since the "fix" has been applied by others here and Robin is apparently working to resolve the issue...
I, too, spent a couple years here(TBN) absorbing others comments and experience and I still believe I got the best bang for my buck...With MossRoad's great site being "tech support" quality, I felt at ease with my decision.
I justified the Robin, initially, over the Kohler, on price alone $2000 diff(422 w/ canopy/6500 vs. 425 canopy inc./8500) that $2000 will buy 25hp engines all day long.
After a month or two, I'll have forgotten this "cold start" bump in the road(I hope /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif)
If I were buying today(knowing now what I didn't know 2 weeks ago) I would insist that Power Trac have the "fix" applied at the factory before I take delivery!
One more comment on engines...After seeing that Deutz at the factory, I would have a model 1430 in a heartbeat for its compact dimensions and NICE motor...but...alas...money was the factor.
And now for the good stuff...for 12.5k delivered to my door(650mi)...422 w/canopy,30" forks,48" deck,48" rotary tiller,
PH digger head/6"&12" augers,sml bucket w/teeth,lg bucket,60" grader/snow blade,mini-hoe/9" bucket,extra attach plate...AND...I don't HAVE to get on my old tired knees anymore...

...Hope this doesn't unduly influence your decision... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Good Luck with your choice...
Bruce

Charlie_Iliff · Feb 7, 2003

I like the PT series very much. I think they are speciality machines. 

Beg to differ. The real value of the Power Trac is that it is not a specialty machine. So far, with a year on the PT1845, I have not encountered much that I can do more easily with a conventional tractor. We have a working farm, with 3 sizes of John Deere and fifty years of accumulated implements, some of which even work. The PT will do more things than any other machine, and will do most things better. Once I installed a draw bar, it even pulls a harrow as well. (It can't handle the hay rake or baler, but we don't make hay any more, so those are just sitting and rusting, anyway.)

That being said, I can't argue against your advice. Keep looking, test driving and pricing until the many options have been explored. There are a lot of 3 point attachments out there, many cheaper than the Power Trac attachments. (The PT stuff is generally overbuilt. Apparently they can't get light sheet metal in Tazewell, so everything is heavy plate. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif) There are also a lot of good tractors being built. From what I read on this board, The big 3 are getting some serious competition, which should bode well for prices and quality across the board.
But - drive a PT if possible. You'll like it.

hazmat · Feb 7, 2003

Charlie or Others,

Have any of you tried a "quick hitch" on a conventional three point tractor? Just wondering how it compared to the PT quick attach system (which I know is a big selling point for the PT).

Also, how is the owners manual for the PT? Do they have a "Service Manual" That might alleviate some of the fears that Phil has.

The lack of dealer network can be seen as a positive or negative. Some aren't mechanically inclined, some would be sleeping with the tractor after explaining to the wife why they had to fix something on a 5 figure investment that would normally be taken care of by a dealer for free (myself included). And obviously some enjoy being a little more hands on & intimate with their tractors & enjoy working on them as much as working with them.

Will PT pay for a local mechanic to do warranty work? (other than engine which is under seperate warranty).

I think PT's are great machines that are certainly priced extremely competatively for their abilities. They do seem to require the "right" owner and an understanding spouse /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Sedgewood · Feb 7, 2003

The real value of the Power Trac is that it is not a specialty machine. So far, with a year on the PT1845, I have not encountered much that I can do more easily with a conventional tractor. 

As usual, I gotta concur with Charlie on this one. I bought my PT1845 at the end of March last year, am now approaching 300 hours, and have only started my faithful IH484 utility tractor once since then - to get it ready to sell! The PT works rings around the IH, doesn't cause @#$%&^ attachment hookup screams in the woods, and it's just a hoot to operate. I'm getting way more seat time in than I ever did, just cause it's so much fun.

I bought my first tractor at 12, oh my gawd 48 years ago, haven't been without one since, and PT wins by far in the user interface catagory. I can easily afford to take some of the time saved by not having to crane my neck to see those bloody good 3ph implements I spent so much effort hooking up to go find a mechanic should I need one. And still be far ahead in productivity.

Where do I factor in the fun?
Sedgewood

Charlie_Iliff · Feb 7, 2003

Have any of you tried a "quick hitch" on a conventional three point tractor? Just wondering how it compared to the PT quick attach system (which I know is a big selling point for the PT).

A quick hitch certainly reduces the prybar and hammer time and three-point hitch-specific language, but I think the Power Trac system is still a lot better. With the quick hitch, most require a fairly expensive mechanism for each attachment, and you still have to back up to the implement, looking over your shoulder, and if not quite right, you have to reposition. With the PT, you drive forward, and can move the attach plate side to side, with the steering, up down and tilt with the joystick. Actually having to back up and reposition is rare.
For PTO powered stuff, with the quick hitch, you have to hook the PTO shaft, where on the PT it's two hydraulic lines. Maybe not much difference in actual effort or difficulty.

 Also, how is the owners manual for the PT? Do they have a "Service Manual" That might alleviate some of the fears that Phil has.


On my 1845, at least, neither the owners manual nor the handout for the maintenance orientation can compete with the shop manuals I'm used to. I'm afraid that is not where Power Trac shines. Their phone support is excellent, however.

 Will PT pay for a local mechanic to do warranty work? (other than engine which is under seperate warranty).

I've not had to have any done, so I don't know. The terms of the written warranty are very restrictive, and probably wouldn't allow it. As a practical matter, other owners and I have gotten more support than the written warranty would allow, but I suppose at any time the ompany could pull back to the written terms. (The warranty is on their website, I think.)

 They do seem to require the "right" owner and an understanding spouse 

Aren't those the universal requirements for all things tractor?? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif