Considering a smaller tractor to avoid Tier 4 emissions difficulties

[ericm979]

I had a Kubota B7100, which is a little larger than a SCUT. The Branson I have now is so much more capable there's no comparison. It pulls more, lifts more and carries more. A lot more.

Most tractors have their rated HP in the 2500-3000 rpm range. The rated rpm is usually the same or close to the PTO rpm, the rpm where the PTO is turning 540 rpm. HP being a function of torque and RPM, tractors that have the same HP at the same RPM make the same torque. When the rated HP is at different rpms, the gearing for the drive and PTO generally are changed to match that rpm, so the torque to the PTO and the wheels is still about the same.

An engine that's larger and making the same power might last longer. But as residential/hobby users we're not putting enough hours on our tractors to wear out even the most high strung tractor engine (if properly cared for) in our lifetimes.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

My 2011 BX25 SCUT is rated at 24 HP. I now have 1500 hours +/- on it. Until last year I used it on our 21 AC forested land doing a lot of improvements. It did all I needed and then some albeit slower. I am retired so time is not an enemy. It made hard work easy and fun. Drug around 10-12" firs and alders often. Dug a lot of ditches and dry wells, leveled ground, terraced hill sides, moved a lot of stuff around with the FEL forks. Pushed over small trees and dug up stumps of those 10-12" trees.

For what you are describing I believe a SCUT will fill your bill. Just get the proper implements to do the jobs you want to tackle. If you are handy with tools and can weld you can make and/or modify a lot of implements. A good dealer salesman can be a lot of help. Better yet ask us!

Ron

 

[Freep]

Thanks again for all the input!

Really manhandling the trees I have some trees in the 30+" area that I would like to drag in fairly lengthy pieces. I'll also want to lift the near end as Jeff suggests (never seen that drawbar - will check it out; was considering a heavy duty boom). How long of a 30" bigleaf maple log do those of you with tree-dragging experience reckon I can pull? I'd like to cut some beams to use in timber framing or post and beam construction. I can quarter them as they get longer if I cannot pull them whole. This use (and pushing logs around with the loader or grapple) are one of the primary reasons I am looking beyond the SCUTs into the CUTs.

 

[RickB]

A great strategy unless your tractor needs exceed 25 hp.

 

[jeff9366]

I have trees in the 30+" area that I would like to drag in fairly lengthy pieces. I'll also want to lift the near end as Jeff suggests (never seen that drawbar - will check it out; was considering a heavy duty boom).

How long of a 30" bigleaf maple log do those of you with tree-dragging experience reckon I can pull? I'd like to cut some beams to use in timber framing or post and beam construction. I can quarter them as they get longer if I cannot pull them whole.

This use (and pushing logs around with the loader or grapple) are one of the primary reasons I am looking beyond the SCUTs into the CUTs.

My experience is with Oak. I guesstimate that 30" diameter green Maple might limit you to six feet or so. You will pull in HST/LOW RANGE, so speed maybe 1-1/2 mph? With smaller diameter sections the tractor can pull longer pieces. This could be an instance where more than 25-horsepower would be useful. BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.

I pulled a hurricane downed 40" Oak section about 12' long the other day. I got it out of the woods and moving over the hard road fine. I stalled out when I reach a short 5 degree dirt slope at the burn pile. I halved trunk there with my Stihl MS461. I did not have my camera, unfortunately, as it was my max timber pull to date. My tractor is heavier than what you are considering and has 37-horsepower. Power to weight ratio probably similar.

Tractor rear/center drawbar is directly attached to tractor. Rear/center drawbar withstand heavier loads than a cross-drawbar, but is fixed. Photo #1 - #3, Post 7, Photo #6
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ar-center-tractor-drawbar-use.html?highlight=

Few would use a boom to pull timber. You have to pull heavy loads low, or the tractor will roll. Nothing with weight center above rear axle. Also, bouncing over rough ground can produce huge transient loads which could bend or break a boom. With a boom, your load elongates due to boom length when load is low. When operating any tractor close to max, hazard quotient escalates.

With a heavier tractor with more FEL capacity you can move timber in front, keeping it dirt free for the sawmill. In Photos #4 - #5 I had a 630 pound Rollover Box Blade as Three Point Hitch ballast, even so the rear wheels were dancing light. Approximate FEL lift 1,700 pounds.



TRANSFORMER Quick Hitch Compatible Platform - OMNI Mfg LLC

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

This discussion is very helpful - many thanks to all for the valuable contributions. Some answers to questions and/or ideas and comments:

I have 10 acres of mildly sloped but fairly bumpy land - not enough, I think, to worry about going uphill. Currently about half of it is wooded and half has been cleared. I intend to re-forest at least a couple of acres over time. Once I fill in the various holes it will be less bumpy. There do seem to be some rocks scattered in with the soil, so there may be cases in which a little extra power is helpful to dig/drag out an inconvenient rock or etc. I think the most intensive operation will be skidding the occasional log. I can imagine doing some niche farming on a small scale, but I suspect the most stressful activity I'll be engaged in is lifting stuff. The Man's experience with having a lot of stuff needing to be done up front is probably similar to my situation. I don't mind it taking a little longer, because as Jeff notes I probably need to take it slow to avoid destroying things.

As I noted, I suspect that a SCUT would be ideal in many ways, but I want to have a bit more capability than I have current plans for given the advice I have received on this board. I also feel that SCUTs seem a little tippy, especially given the bumpiness of my land and my o bwn inexperience with tractor usage.

I will probably use a rotary cutter to some extent, but the tractor will primarily be for general utility. The reason I like the CK2610 is the weight and the fact that it has a larger engine in it, which should in (my) theory suggest more headroom. I have storage available. Probably, I will start out using the tractor as would a residential user, but I am generally ambitious with regard to tool usage. I'll find more ways to use it, I'm sure. I am generally uninterested in a used tractor due to my own inability to evaluate it, because I would like a warranty, and because used tractors cost so much relative to new ones. For this first tractor, I want it to work properly, or if not to be my dealer's problem to fix rather than mine.

Re: the Tier 4 engines, I am less concerned with regen (which I think I understand, and does not seem problematic to me) or cost thereof. I think I can manage to work the tractor hard enough once in a while to burn stuff off. I am concerned with potential equipment upkeep or replacement costs over time. I love the idea of aftermarket mods as Slowpoke Slim suggests, but I don't know the extent to which the Kioti CK series would permit that. (I am sort of locked into Kioti, as it is the best tractor for me that I can tell with a dealer nearby.) If I were to go bigger than the CK2610, it would be a CK3510SE or CK4010 SE. They are all the same size and near the same weight, and relatively close in price.

So far, the only pto driven attachment you've listed has been a rotary cutter? Are you thinking a finish mower for established yards around the house, or more like a brush hog to clear fields of tall standing grass and brush? The type of cutter (finish-vs.-brush hog) will change your hp demand, as will size of cutter and how often (as in how tall the field gets, and what is in it) you plan on cutting it. Are you seeing any other pto driven tools in your future use? Tiller, splitter, chipper/shredder? Depending on the size and type of pto attachment, will steer you towards how much hp you will need. Thinking this through now may save you a ton of money later (if you pick too small and have to rebuy another tractor later).

Tractor weight will help with stability over uneven ground, stability lifting objects with FEL, and also help (along with hp) with any ground engaging attachments like plows, discs, middle busters, cultivators, etc. Filling the rear tires will also help with stability and ballast for FEL lifting, along with keeping a heavy attachment on your 3 pt hitch.

 

[Oldoak]

Not that I like the idea of it, but I wouldn't allow Tier 4 emissions systems limit my tractor choices. I always prefer more tractor than I need so as I am not constantly working it to it's maximum capacity. Just like the front wheel drive. I never engage it unless I really need it.

 

[ericm979]

Look into logging arches for pulling trees. If you're going to be picking up trees with the loader and a grapple or forks you will want a large tractor, good loader capacity, ballast weight, filled tires, etc. Wood gets heavy when it's a decent diameter. The other day I picked up a length of madrone that was only a little over 2' or so diameter and about 8' long. It was close to my loader's capacity- I had to rev the engine up and it felt like it was straining. That tree is 4.5' at the base. The grapple couldn't even fit around the lowest 8'. I had to section that into rounds and then rip into quarters. Ok for firewood but obviously not for lumber.

 

[kenmac]

that's why I bought a low hr (300) used large tractor to avoid the government mandated crap !

 

[cphilip]

The CK2610hst mentioned sure hits most of your important wishes. Works for me very well and I downsized getting there. Big little tractor. Heavy and handles all the 5 foot mowing stuff I throw at it pretty darn well. And does all the bucket and grapple stuff I need it to do. And its a big motor for its HP at 1.6 liter and is just under Tier 4 as well. Everything is a trade off no matter what you do. This ones a great compromise and a capable tractor in a good size. Avoiding tier 4 was indeed one of my wish list items and this one pegged almost all the other things on the list as well.